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GDT: Leafs @/vs Habs 8pm on sportsnet1

Volcanologist

Well-known member
good question.

In theory, legit muscle that is good defensively would be worth it. We'll get a good look at that soon.
that and winning leaderbean experience for the postseason. the Leafs are definitely lacking that as a young squad. Our captain is a fine player and lockerroom citizen, but he knows nothing but losing in the NHL.
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
no the trade was fine, I'm saying is the cost of keeping Clifford worth it

Yeah, exactly. The way I view it is that Clifford was a throw-in, to be a short-term replacement for the left wing depth we lost when Trevor Moore was included in the deal.

That I'm not particularly impressed with Clifford doesn't really change the substance of the deal for me. Dubas capably filled our backup position for a minimum cost, in spite of the minimal cap space he had available, the pressure he was under to make a deal with how Hutch was imploding, and considering that the media was screaming that we should be trading top prospects and/or a first round pick for a guy like Georgiev.

But if upgrade one of the 3rd round picks we traded away to a 2nd rounder for the privilege of re-signing Clifford for more money than he's worth/than we can afford, that'll take a bit of the shine off that trade.
 

BeLeafer

resurrected
I was pretty disappointed with Clifford when we acquired him but thought he looked great last night. I was impressed with his skating, ability to read plays, etc.. Good brutish 4th liner.
 

Neurospasm

Active member
I’m hoping Clifford can provide us with some nice dirty plays that don’t get called in the playoffs. Bruins style if you will.
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
Clifford is garbage. I hope he somehow redeems himself in the playoffs, but this is not a guy you want to spend anything on to keep.
 

soco22

Well-known member
Kapanen also has shown that ability to throw hits and use his body before the season was stopped. Our left side outside of Robertson and Reilly all have the ability to hit ppl or at least use their body in the corner (hyman) at the moment to make life harder on the BJs
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Kapanen also has shown that ability to throw hits and use his body before the season was stopped. Our left side outside of Robertson and Reilly all have the ability to hit ppl or at least use their body in the corner (hyman) at the moment to make life harder on the BJs
Overall we're not nearly as soft as our reputation suggests. We just happen to have a massive media base in Toronto who likes to pretend that we're still playing in 2005. Our high skill kids are pretty soft as far as those things go, but our supporting cast has a fair bit of modern "physicality" in it. Big, heavy, hard to play against. Hyman, Muzzin, Engvall, Goat, Soupy, Dermott, Ceci, Kappy, Holl, Spezza. Not physical in the way the mouth breathers like, but entirely capable of playing big and heavy along the boards.
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
Overall we're not nearly as soft as our reputation suggests. We just happen to have a massive media base in Toronto who likes to pretend that we're still playing in 2005. Our high skill kids are pretty soft as far as those things go, but our supporting cast has a fair bit of modern "physicality" in it. Big, heavy, hard to play against. Hyman, Muzzin, Engvall, Goat, Soupy, Dermott, Ceci, Kappy, Holl, Spezza. Not physical in the way the mouth breathers like, but entirely capable of playing big and heavy along the boards.
the media hasn't caught up to modern hockey either.

the types of players they like to put up on a pedestal as being the prototypical 'gritty' forward are either mostly unicorns (i.e. Tom Wilson) or not in the league anymore. the league has changed, but the media narrative is still out of the goddamn stone ages.
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
I think by necessity if you have a super skilled team, you're not going to have a "tough" team. And you don't trade the skill for the toughness, or dilute the skill on the roster down by adding plugs to the third and fourth lines.
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
I'd love to compare the Leafs and Bruins lineups line by line and have someone explain to me how the Bruins are 'tough and rugged' while the Leafs are 'soft'.

Really, the only out-of-the-ordinary toughness on the Bruins is Zdeno Chara, who's hard and physically intimidating to play against and probably still legitimately has the ability to murder any player in the league in hand-to-hand combat if it came to it. Besides that though, looking over their roster, I'm having a really hard time seeing where this toughness is.

The days when they had Milan Lucic & Nathan Horton in their top-6, a few other tough-as-nails defensemen to go along with Chara on the back-end and a heavyweight fighter in Shawn Thornton are long-gone. So unless you want to argue that small pests like Marchand & DeBrusk, or the Cody Franson-esque Brandon Carlo represent toughness, it's a ridiculously stale and out-of-date team identity.
 

Preston

Well-known member
Really, the only out-of-the-ordinary toughness on the Bruins is Zdeno Chara, who's hard and physically intimidating to play against and probably still legitimately has the ability to murder any player in the league in hand-to-hand combat if it came to it. Besides that though, looking over their roster, I'm having a really hard time seeing where this toughness is.

The days when they had Milan Lucic & Nathan Horton in their top-6, a few other tough-as-nails defensemen to go along with Chara on the back-end and a heavyweight fighter in Shawn Thornton are long-gone. So unless you want to argue that small pests like Marchand & DeBrusk, or the Cody Franson-esque Brandon Carlo represent toughness, it's a ridiculously stale and out-of-date team identity.
It's more about being "hard" or puck hounds/strong on the puck. Marchand, Bergeron, debrusk, etc. That's the new "toughness" and what translates on the nerd stat sheet in the end.
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
It's more about being "hard" or puck hounds/strong on the puck. Marchand, Bergeron, debrusk, etc. That's the new "toughness" and what translates on the nerd stat sheet in the end.
I mean, sure, but we have guys like that too. I don't think this is the real salient point here.

The media holds the Leafs to a 'toughness' standard from quite literally decades ago. The Bruins are inherently 'tough' because... ???
 

Preston

Well-known member
I mean, sure, but we have guys like that too. I don't think this is the real salient point here.

The media holds the Leafs to a 'toughness' standard from quite literally decades ago. The Bruins are inherently 'tough' because... ???
Oh yeah idc about the media. Just saying the definition of valuable "toughness" has changed.
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
Oh yeah idc about the media. Just saying the definition of valuable "toughness" has changed.
we are agreed on the bolded.

maybe in two decades the media will catch up. problem is all the marginal ex-players who are now 'analysts'. so many of them are clouded by their past experiences (or the brain damage that resulted from them).

then of course there are blowhards like Burke, where really you shouldn't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. is it unfair to call him the Trump of sports analysts?
 

Preston

Well-known member
we are agreed on the bolded.

maybe in two decades the media will catch up. problem is all the marginal ex-players who are now 'analysts'. so many of them are clouded by their past experiences (or the brain damage that resulted from them).

then of course there are blowhards like Burke, where really you shouldn't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. is it unfair to call him the Trump of sports analysts?
As a great man would say: stop listening to them
 
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