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New Canadian Politics Thread

HabsFan1

Active member
Yes. But there aren't many votes to grab from even the most progressive CPC members in the center of their party.

At least not compared to the amount of votes floating around freely on the left. Parties go to where the votes are.
Maybe that’s why I have been frustrated with both parties recently lol. Not old enough(nor did I care at a young voting age) to remember exactly how the liberals were pre Trudeau.
 

Altair

Active member
Maybe that’s why I have been frustrated with both parties recently lol. Not old enough(nor did I care at a young voting age) to remember exactly how the liberals were pre Trudeau.
I'm assuming you're talking about Justin.

They were fiscally conservative, socially liberal. Balanced budgets and gay marriage.

They ditched that after they got rocked by jack Layton and bumped to third party status. The only fiscally conservative party that still exists (PPC...ha) is the conservatives but they come with the social conservative baggage. So the calculus Canadians need to make is, is it worth it to have balanced budgets if it means having fights about abortion or gay marriage or conversion therapy or whatever else the social conservative wing want to bring up. Judging by the election results, the answer is no.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
I'm not really sure what isn't centrist about the Liberals today. Environmental protection/climate change action isn't exactly a far left wing idea anymore, it's supported by 70% of the country. Of the parties with a climate plan, the Liberals are the only ones who aren't fighting against pipeline expansion.

Here's the core liberals campaign promises

- "Middle class" tax cuts (increase to basic exemption)
- Maternity/Paternity leave benefits tax free
- Increase to child benefits in first year of life
- $1200 increase to post secondary grants
- OAS increase for seniors over 75
- Improve CPP suvivor benefits
- 15 dollar minimum wage
- Changes to first time home buyers program for Toronto & Vancouver where the housing markets there render the existing program useless
- A supplemental program that is strapping on top of the existing EI system that kicks in after EI ends
- plant 2 billion trees
- Install EV stations along transcanada highway
- Interest free loan program for renovating your home to make them more energy efficient


It's definitely not a "right wing" list of promises but it's pretty fucking centrist. The NDP's promises were a fair shot further to the left but even they weren't crazy lefty. National pharmacare, opposition to pipeline expansion, add dental care to existing public healthcare coverage, 500,000 affordable housing units built, 10 billion on 500K more childcare spaces, retrofit all existing buildings in the country by 2050 to make them more energy efficient, wealth tax on those making more than 20 million annually.
 

Wayward DP

Active member
I'm assuming you're talking about Justin.

They were fiscally conservative, socially liberal. Balanced budgets and gay marriage.

They ditched that after they got rocked by jack Layton and bumped to third party status. The only fiscally conservative party that still exists (PPC...ha) is the conservatives but they come with the social conservative baggage. So the calculus Canadians need to make is, is it worth it to have balanced budgets if it means having fights about abortion or gay marriage or conversion therapy or whatever else the social conservative wing want to bring up. Judging by the election results, the answer is no.
the conservative party of canada is not fiscally conservative
 

Wayward DP

Active member
I'm not really sure what isn't centrist about the Liberals today. Environmental protection/climate change action isn't exactly a far left wing idea anymore, it's supported by 70% of the country. Of the parties with a climate plan, the Liberals are the only ones who aren't fighting against pipeline expansion.

Here's the core liberals campaign promises

- "Middle class" tax cuts (increase to basic exemption)
- Maternity/Paternity leave benefits tax free
- Increase to child benefits in first year of life
- $1200 increase to post secondary grants
- OAS increase for seniors over 75
- Improve CPP suvivor benefits
- 15 dollar minimum wage
- Changes to first time home buyers program for Toronto & Vancouver where the housing markets there render the existing program useless
- A supplemental program that is strapping on top of the existing EI system that kicks in after EI ends
- plant 2 billion trees
- Install EV stations along transcanada highway
- Interest free loan program for renovating your home to make them more energy efficient


It's definitely not a "right wing" list of promises but it's pretty fucking centrist. The NDP's promises were a fair shot further to the left but even they weren't crazy lefty. National pharmacare, opposition to pipeline expansion, add dental care to existing public healthcare coverage, 500,000 affordable housing units built, 10 billion on 500K more childcare spaces, retrofit all existing buildings in the country by 2050 to make them more energy efficient, wealth tax on those making more than 20 million annually.
sometimes I legit think our neighbour to the south has totally skewed our perception of things like 'left wing' and 'right wing'

its at least a little ironic. the GOP will rail on about the Dems being socialists in their country. the Dems in Canada probably line up closest with the Conservatives now. although I guess with the caveat that that is subject to change if Bernie/Warren take the nomination.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Yeah, Bernie is probably a middle of the road NDP'er on the Canadian scale, Warren a purple Liberal.

Which makes them both communists in the US.
 

BeLeafer

resurrected
Only 35% lying by their calculation. Low bar.

For kept promises, the devil is often in the details:


You could tab this up in a lot of different ways. There's a ton of wee promises they claim were made being counted there. While the 'broken' promises contain items like reneging on $6 billion green infrastructure investment -- yeah, neoliberal. Same with the reneging on youth employment, rental housing, stopping the hack job on Canada Post, myriad FN promises, sole source F-35, etc..

No tab on the promises not made, but I guess that's outside the scope of this discussion (vigorous defense of the Saudi Arms deal, huge corporate tax cuts, buying the pipeline, etc.).
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Only 35% lying by their calculation. Low bar.

For kept promises, the devil is often in the details:


You could tab this up in a lot of different ways. There's a ton of wee promises they claim were made being counted there.

While the 'broken' promises contain items like reneging on $6 billion green infrastructure investment -- yeah, neoliberal.
Well, it's relatively harsh to call that one a truly broken promise (the devil is often in the detail there as well). They spent 5 billion in 4 years instead of 6 billion. Neoliberal.


Same with the reneging on youth employment,
"Although the investment promise is met ($339 million instead of $300 million), the number of jobs announced (35,000) is less than the promised 40,000. If in the end 40,000 jobs end up being created each year for the next 3 years thanks to that program, that promise status will be updated accordingly"

sole source F-35, etc..
They're not sole sourcing the F-35, they just made a payment to stay in the program because there's benefit to it while their process plays out

VICTORIA, British Columbia — The U.S. is threatening to pull the F-35 from Canada’s fighter jet competition if the ally to the north doesn’t change requirements for the winning bidder to stipulate specific industrial benefits for domestic firms.

The U.S. government is arguing that since Canada is a partner in the F-35 program it cannot request guaranteed industrial benefits for its companies.

Canada has pre-qualified four aircraft for its fighter jet project worth up to 19 billion Canadian dollars (U.S. $14 billion): the Lockheed Martin F-35, Boeing Super Hornet, Eurofighter Typhoon and the Saab Gripen.
No tab on the promises not made, but I guess that's outside the scope of this discussion (vigorous defense of the Saudi Arms deal, huge corporate tax cuts, buying the pipeline, etc.).
Like I said, centrist. Some right wing shit, some left wing shit.

Regardless though, Trudeau has done a better job than most politicians at keeping promises. I'll take 70% and run with it.
 

lecoqsportif

Well-known member
Yes. But there aren't many votes to grab from even the most progressive CPC members in the center of their party.

At least not compared to the amount of votes floating around freely on the left. Parties go to where the votes are.
Yup. They live in the centre and steal ideas from both sides... or anyone, frankly.

How many people ran for the marijuana party in this election?
 

BeLeafer

resurrected
Well, it's relatively harsh to call that one a truly broken promise (the devil is often in the detail there as well). They spent 5 billion in 4 years instead of 6 billion. Neoliberal.
They set up a bank to backstop private investments rather than the municipal and provincial investments they promised. Further, they put the bank in the hands of corporate lackeys. 100% neoliberal.
 

Altair

Active member
Everyone, I have a confession to make.

A had a edible last night, and I work up today super hungry. Like, way hungrier than usual.

Neohungry.
 

UWHabs

Active member
The Libs I'd probably call a left-wing party who isn't opposed to some "right-wing" ideals. Like, the NDP as a pure leftist party would always veer away from tax cuts, and obviously would never have gotten into the pipeline business, but the Liberals are certainly flexible enough to handle that.

And yeah, they've actually been really good at keeping their promises, except they could never campaign on that because one of the ones they broke (electoral reform) was a pretty big plank of their previous campaign.

But yeah, Canadian politics is in kind of a weird spot, where really none of the parties are actually "fiscally conservative", with either the left all having tons of things they like to spend on, and the right only trying to be conservative by promising 50B in mystery cuts and "efficiencies" generally speaking.
 
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