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OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

Preston

Well-known member
Kyrie is a classic contrarian. "People tell me the world is round, well I say it's flat." "People want me to return to the NBA, well I say let's start a new league." At least in this case, I like it.
 

Jeremy

Well-known member
VInce Carter retires. Was hoping he’d come back and finish here. Really would have been awesome had he been with us for the championship run. I heard recently he wants to get into broadcasting. Thanks for everything Vince!
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
Good riddance.

Personally, I’m glad he never got to re-write his ending with this team, or attach himself to the group of winners that brought this city a championship.

Hopefully the Raptors organization doesn’t debase themselves by raising that man’s jersey to the rafters.

The first and only number they should be retiring in the foreseeable future is #7, whenever his career happens to wrap up.
 

Preston

Well-known member
He is the reason I got into basketball. He was showtime. Celebrities from across the continent would travel to Toronto because that is where the show was.

I'm over what happened afterwards. He was a bitch but so are a lot of people. Dude provided electric entertainment for me for several years. How could I hate him?
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Yeah, vince's legacy in toronto is massive. It's not crazy to suggest that the Raptors could have gone the way of the Grizzlies had vince not been here.

The Vince effect on CanBall is also epic. The amount of attention and dollars that flowed into youth basketball due to his impact is directly linked to the rise of canadians in the nba.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Was at ACC when he got 50 vs Philly/Iverson in the playoffs. Travelled to Philly to see a game -- and heard one of their fans yell "Hey Vince, stick to hockey". Won't forget either moment.
 

Jeremy

Well-known member
Vince did a lot more good than bad.

Like I said, I’m just disappointed we didn’t get a chance to see him back once more before retiring. Masai said a few years ago publicly he wanted to bring him back so I expected it to happen.
 

Deckie007

Well-known member
Good riddance.

Personally, I’m glad he never got to re-write his ending with this team, or attach himself to the group of winners that brought this city a championship.

Hopefully the Raptors organization doesn’t debase themselves by raising that man’s jersey to the rafters.

The first and only number they should be retiring in the foreseeable future is #7, whenever his career happens to wrap up.
Nah, I was super bitter at first but the Raps sustained success for a near decade now culminating with the championship last year, has healed that wound for me anyways. I would have been cool with VC ending his career here, but it was not to be.
 
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Deckie007

Well-known member
Yeah, vince's legacy in toronto is massive. It's not crazy to suggest that the Raptors could have gone the way of the Grizzlies had vince not been here.
nah, the biggest issue the Grizzlies had was alienating the business community in Vancouver. For all their dysfunction the Raptors had high profile sponsors right out of the gate with great attendance considering they played in the Dome which was just a horrid place for basketball. Once MLSE bought the team and the Raps moved to the ACC, we were good. The Raps were never moving, VC or not. Doesn't lessen his impact on Canadian Basketball though.
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
I guess my point is, it's not even about me being bitter towards Vince. I just think that when you take into consideration the actual amount of time/portion of his career he spent here, the amount of team and individual success he had while he was here and the way he chose to leave, he's not deserving of the highest individual honour a North American professional sports franchise can bestow on a player.

Now, in any telling of the history of the Raptors franchise and of the history of basketball in Canada, you have to fully acknowledge the growth of the Raptors fan base and of basketball in Canada that was kicked off by his time in Toronto. But I don't think that means Raptors fans are obligated to feel warm & fuzzy about the guy, or that the franchise needs to retire his number.

At the very least, if they do go ahead and do it (and unfortunately, they probably will), he should be made to wait in line behind the guy who's spent all of his best years here, built his basketball legacy here, plays with all the toughness and drive Vince never had, and who played a huge part in bringing a championship here. As opposed to Vince, who only ever won one single playoff series while he was here, and never even sniffed any real playoff success anywhere else throughout his 22-year career, either as a star player or a role player.
 

Deckie007

Well-known member
The franchise doesn't "need" to do anything. But I mean if the fanbase in general wants the number retirement to happen, it definitely will.
As for Lowry being the first to be retired, I think it really matters how long he plays for. If he just plays out his contract with the Raptors and retires then yeah make VC wait. If he signs another contract elsewhere, I dunno the Raps probably retire VC first.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
nah, the biggest issue the Grizzlies had was alienating the business community in Vancouver. For all their dysfunction the Raptors had high profile sponsors right out of the gate with great attendance considering they played in the Dome which was just a horrid place for basketball. Once MLSE bought the team and the Raps moved to the ACC, we were good. The Raps were never moving, VC or not. Doesn't lessen his impact on Canadian Basketball though.
Eh, I think you're underestimating the impact that perennial mickey mouse status can have on a franchise. The Raptors went to 17th in the league in attendance the year after the Vince trade. Remove that period of excitement from the equation in what was ostensibly a hockey town at the time and there's a real chance that the fan support slowly bleeds out as the team sits on the rebuilding treadmill while trying to market the always exciting Antawn Jamison as the future of the franchise.

We're obviously dealing with a bunch of unknowables, and yeah the corporate support (including MLSE ownership) would have given the franchise significantly more runway to deal with lack of fan support had it gone that way but long term fan malaise has killed other NBA franchises. We weren't immune to that.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
and for clarity...I'm in no rush to see Vince's number in the rafters. Lowry deserves to be first, DD second. After those two are up, the discussion can really be had. I would like to see it up there eventually though. His impact on the franchise and the sport in Canada was massive.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Eh, I think you're underestimating the impact that perennial mickey mouse status can have on a franchise. The Raptors went to 17th in the league in attendance the year after the Vince trade. Remove that period of excitement from the equation in what was ostensibly a hockey town at the time and there's a real chance that the fan support slowly bleeds out as the team sits on the rebuilding treadmill while trying to market the always exciting Antawn Jamison as the future of the franchise.

We're obviously dealing with a bunch of unknowables, and yeah the corporate support (including MLSE ownership) would have given the franchise significantly more runway to deal with lack of fan support had it gone that way but long term fan malaise has killed other NBA franchises. We weren't immune to that.
I agree. Occasionally, franchises need a star to stir up an emotional connection with the fanbase. I remember Randy Moss doing the same with the Vikings decades ago. Franchise was moribund, had a shitty stadium and was threatening to move.
 
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Deckie007

Well-known member
Eh, I think you're underestimating the impact that perennial mickey mouse status can have on a franchise. The Raptors went to 17th in the league in attendance the year after the Vince trade. Remove that period of excitement from the equation in what was ostensibly a hockey town at the time and there's a real chance that the fan support slowly bleeds out as the team sits on the rebuilding treadmill while trying to market the always exciting Antawn Jamison as the future of the franchise.

We're obviously dealing with a bunch of unknowables, and yeah the corporate support (including MLSE ownership) would have given the franchise significantly more runway to deal with lack of fan support had it gone that way but long term fan malaise has killed other NBA franchises. We weren't immune to that.
Mebbe, but we were never in Grizzly territory. No way to really know for sure how it would have worked out. I think we agree though, that team success > stars when it comes to long term franchise stability.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
The Grizzlies are kind of in their own stratosphere when it comes to a franchise dying mid birth. The list of franchises in any major north american sport that was in "grizzly territory" can be counted on one hand and the Grizz are near the top of it I think. The Raps easily could have gone "Expos" on us though.
 
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