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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

manny

Member
I guess what fucks me up the most about the entire Shatkins strategy is that they spend more money on bad players than they do on good players. Just imagine they took the money they are willing to piss away on replacement level roster fillers and spent it on studs, then went out and actually filled the rest of the roster with cheap players. Like actually cheap, not "cheap" like this guy is cheap.

We're spending 21.5 million on Grichuk and Anderson next season. You're most the way home on a star player at that number.
Agreed with all this. Anderson is yet another guy was on the DFA/non-tender chopping block. Just like Drury, McKinney, Teoscar, Fisher, etc. At least this time they didn't give up any real trade chips.

If they would focus on finding these 0.5-1.5 WAR players (who are available everywhere, at all times) on cheaper deals, they could spend real money on actual good players.
 

uncus

Active member
I have a question for those in the know....

Can you please explain to me the reason the jay's dont go out and try to sign two top end starting pitchers?

They have alot of young talent that could sure use the stabilizing effect that an experienced talented pitcher would have.

Instead of paying for crap as eluded to earlier, pay the money and get the best.
 

Matrim

Active member
I have a question for those in the know....

Can you please explain to me the reason the jay's dont go out and try to sign two top end starting pitchers?

They have alot of young talent that could sure use the stabilizing effect that an experienced talented pitcher would have.

Instead of paying for crap as eluded to earlier, pay the money and get the best.
They cost too much and the best SP's probably don't want to come to a rebuilding team, especially if the rebuilding team isn't offering the most money.

Also the management team sucks.
 

MyNameIsJonas

Active member
Let's have at it. What are your realistic offseason scenarios? Who do you got us signing?
Shoe back.

C tier SP not attached to a pick. Think Tanner Roark, Rick Porcello, Dallas Keuchel, Alex Wood, Kyle Gibson, or Wade Miley on a 2 or 3 year deal. Itshould be noted any of these guys would open th year as our best SP

A 1B/DH sort but i think they want said player to also play other spots. Castellanos and Moustakas probably choose contenders. The Japanese import Tsutsugo would to my list, but EE, Moreland, Belt and Smoak could make sense.

A OF4 or OF5 that can actually play CF wuth Teo moving to DH. Fisher and Alford seem to be both bad or not in the plans and neither is a CF. Think Billy Hamilton, Jarrod Dyson types on a durt cheap deal

2 or 3 bargain RP. Historically they have done well doing this
 

Leafin'

Active member
I def agree they'll be going after players that don't have a comp pick attached to them. Would be nice to go after a reasonably attainable SP like Wheeler, Odorizzi type.

I could see them look at a Teheran, Wacha, Pineda type reclamation project. Maybe Porcello with his Cherington connections.

Do they go after an OF? I don't see any CF that are good in FA but I do see some RF bats that could be decent. Any interest in Puig? He's big time talented. Castellanos isn't a good fielder but he'd add some OBP skills that this team is lacking. Dickerson is another guy that might be interesting.
 

MyNameIsJonas

Active member
As much as i want them to go after an Odorizzi/Wheeler or Castellanos/Ozuna im not sure of a few things im unsure of and none if it has to do with the pick comp.

How much better are these guys than the best C tier guy? Like are Wheeler/Odorizzi on a 5 year deal that much better than Keuchel/Roark on 2/3? Im not sold the gap is huge. Which brings me to

Are any of these guys worth paying the Toronto and rebuilding taxes that will be assiciated wuth them?

I feel like my desire for Shatkins to fucking do something is clouding my reason as to whether this crop is worth it
 

MyNameIsJonas

Active member
I def agree they'll be going after players that don't have a comp pick attached to them. Would be nice to go after a reasonably attainable SP like Wheeler, Odorizzi type.

I could see them look at a Teheran, Wacha, Pineda type reclamation project. Maybe Porcello with his Cherington connections.

Do they go after an OF? I don't see any CF that are good in FA but I do see some RF bats that could be decent. Any interest in Puig? He's big time talented. Castellanos isn't a good fielder but he'd add some OBP skills that this team is lacking. Dickerson is another guy that might be interesting.
If they wanted Teheran they could have traded for him like they did Anderson. Julio is trending poorly too
 

axlsalinger

Active member
Like are Wheeler/Odorizzi on a 5 year deal that much better than Keuchel/Roark on 2/3? Im not sold the gap is huge. Which brings me to

Are any of these guys worth paying the Toronto and rebuilding taxes that will be assiciated wuth them?

I feel like my desire for Shatkins to fucking do something is clouding my reason as to whether this crop is worth it
You're right, but people have to understand that Cole and Strasburg aren't coming here no matter what we do. Both Boras guys and Cole seems laser focused on the West Coast. I don't trust Strasburg's health.

So you look at the next tier and I think Wheeler is worth the risk. He's a huge question mark but more interesting than these other guys. Odorizzi may not be better than Keuchel but he's younger so makes more sense for us. I guess Pineda is mildly interesting.
 

MyNameIsJonas

Active member
Pinieda is suspended for 50 games and is not healthy ever. He might be intriguing but they are preaching durability and certainty.

I like Wheeler and Odorizzi too, and lets assume the markets are 4 x 15-20 for either or. What is then the price for the Jays? There have to be at least 10 more desirable places for them to play looking for SP in WAS, LAA, HOU, TEX, ATL, LAD, BOS, MIL, CWS, CHC, TB, SDP, PHI, All of those teams are further along towards contending than the Jays at the moment and most if not all are more desirable than Canada to most athletes. After Cole, Strasburg, Ryu and Bumgarner find homes, there are still many different teams the Jays need to outbid ( likely in years and dollars) for either Wheeler or Odorizzi, and yeah sure, it's not my money and they payroll is super low are fair arguments. I'm just not sure either one is worth the extra effort required to get it done, when we might not even be ready to compete until at least year 2 of said 5 or 6 year deal?

It might make more sense to wait for Pearson, the growth of Vlad/Bo/Biggio and become more appealing.

If anything i'd prefer these guys push the envelope in the trade market for younger/controlled SP, and other assets, rather than these 2 WIN ceiling wonders like Anderson.
 

UWHabs

Active member
At this stage, I think you either go big for a Cole/Strasburg, or you pick up more inning-eaters and hope they can turn into a prospect at the deadline. A guy like Wood would be ideal - coming off a nothing season, but only a couple years removed from nice numbers.

Thames wouldn't be a terrible 1b/dh option, since him numbers haven't been horrible even last year, or if the market crashes on Moustakas as someone mentioned above he could be a solid choice. Honestly not a lot of other bats out there that I really like. Someone who can play CF would be nice to bring in, like your Lagares/Broxton/Martin type, yeah, although honestly I wouldn't mind just trying out Fisher/Alford there full-time to see if either can do anything.

Which really, when you get down to it, the roster is pretty close to locked up.
Jansen
Tellez/Biggio/Bichette/Vlad
Gurriel/Fisher/Grichuk
XXX (DH)
McGuire/Drury/Hernandez (bench)

Really only leaves 2 open roster spots, with Alford and McKinney potential returning options too. It's not really pretty - ideally would be good to bring in a backup IF who can actually play SS for the games that Bichette needs to sit, and someone to play CF if/when Fisher sucks out there. And I still want Biggio/Bichette/Vlad to get as many PA as possible. Maybe the smart solution is you bring in like a Hechavarria to basically play as the general backup to the kids on the infield, with them each rotating regularly through the DH spot.

But however you slice it, it's pretty much guaranteed to be a boring off-season. I can't see us really want to trade anyone from the roster, and I can't see us bring in any exciting people. At least we know the kids will be playing next year so there's still some excitement in the lineup.
 

MyNameIsJonas

Active member
It would be nice if Grichuk was fine playing CF then we could have a passable CF and an opening in RF with a glut of decent to great corner OF on the market.

Instead we have no CF, no one great on the market and one of the worst RF in MLB
 

MyNameIsJonas

Active member
Id replace Drury with Urena/Valera ( both sound like urinary infections) to solve the backup SS thing and with the 26th man carry 2 of Alford/Fisher/newCF. The bulk of the DH work should go to Teo. McKinney can rot in Buffalo ( control!)

If you give a shit about Tellez still then the 1B signee should be a RHH, maybe EE. If not i go hard at Tsutsugo or Thames. For the loce of Christ not someone who is just a haur better than Rowdy, bit not good enough to send him to AAA. Please no to Belt, Moreland or Smoak.
 

manny

Member
I agree that they’re likely to go after one more SP in the Roark/Teheran/Keuchel tier unless those guys go above their expected market. They may wait until Feb or March to take whichever one is left. Or maybe another low-value deal like the Anderson one for a guy that doesn’t fit into another team’s payroll.

I can also see a three year deal for Moustakas. He’s been looking for multiple years for a while now and nobody will give it to him. Maybe the Jays will step up. Moustakas has empty power, low OBP but lots of HR, he’s exactly the type of player they go after. He is coming off basically a career year at age 30, so lots of teams won’t want to pay him what he is looking for, but the admin could probably tell itself that he had unlocked some special new talent and will age well. Moustakas could be the nominal 1B, and could see some 3B time.

Otherwise, maybe a 4th OF type that can play a solid CF (26 man roster this year so they can probably afford to carry an extra OF). I don’t think they’ll bring in a clear-cut starter because then they wouldn’t have AB for all the OF dreck they’ve already committed to. Maybe you can find a taker for Teoscar, but I doubt it.

I hope they don’t sign a dedicated DH. I’d like to see the Jays use the DH spot exclusively for load management and to keep guys who happen to be hitting well in the lineup. Maybe they can find another Sogard out there somewhere. But I don’t expect anything too creative.
 
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