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OT:World Politics

Habsy

Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire
It’s rather implied isn’t it?

Looking the other way on human rights issues just to make a deal isn’t the answer. It’s just kicking the can down the road. This is why it needs to stop.

People can’t on one hand condemn Trump for everything under the sun then cry about a nuclear deal with a country that literally kills its own people intentionally. This goes for DPRK and others as well. The nuclear agreement wasn’t a very good one and was just a temporary measure. It’s time for more permanent solutions. Economically strangle them until the people get the balls to make changes.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
That's an incredibly naive view of how to manage world affairs. Harm reduction on a case by case basis is the only way to manage affairs. Doing it with a relatively stable moral compass (Saudis v Iran, for example) is best case scenario type stuff.

You can't single out human rights abuses from one regime and then prop up other regimes who are similar or worse and then pretend to have a functioning moral compass. A fucked up western moral compass is the biggest reason we don't have a democratic ally in Tehran already.
 

Habsy

Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire
That's an incredibly naive view of how to manage world affairs. Harm reduction on a case by case basis is the only way to manage affairs. Doing it with a relatively stable moral compass (Saudis v Iran, for example) is best case scenario type stuff.
Best case eh? For how long? Its not naivete, it’s naive to think “managing the situation” will ever effectuate meaningful change.

You can't single out human rights abuses from one regime and then prop up other regimes who are similar or worse and then pretend to have a functioning moral compass.
I agree that you can’t and the USA has been guilty of doing so for almost a century.

A fucked up western moral compass is the biggest reason we don't have a democratic ally in Tehran already.
I’m assuming you’re referring to 1953? Overthrowing the elected PM Mosaddegh? If so, agreed again.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Best case eh? For how long? Its not naivete, it’s naive to think “managing the situation” will ever effectuate meaningful change.
Regime change is a lot trickier than choking out the regime financially. See DPRK for a hell of an example. Exactly how much human misery are you willing to inflict on their population to try to get them to overthrow a regime that has a modern military? How much meat for the grinder is too much?

If you're not willing to put boots on the ground like Iraq (which you had the benefit of one major ground war to wipe out the majority of their military assets and then a decade of full-blown international sanctions), the carrot is usually the better method than the stick. The US could easily tie human rights and development goals into trade agreements if they were so inclined.

I’m assuming you’re referring to 1953? Overthrowing the elected PM Mosaddegh? If so, agreed again.
Yeah, that.
 

lecoqsportif

Well-known member
The nuclear agreement has a sunset clause anyway and Iran was cheating.
Evidence re: cheating?

15 years is a damn robust sunset period in the real world. It was a solid basis to stabilize regional tensions and provided a considerable window to allow for regime modernize and normalization of relations.
 

lecoqsportif

Well-known member
The reality is that we need to understand the reality of liberals in Iran who have to deal with the klepto-fanatic IRG on a daily, intimate, and deadly basis. The nuclear deal was a HUGE win for the modernizers (the IRG hated it), and Fat Orange Moron pulled the rug out from underneath then because Sawdi Boy King didn’t like the idea of Iran normalizing and integrating in the world economy based on supply/demand.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
oh the UK press has been pretty blatantly racists and anti Meghan. She's the wrong colour and wrong nationality for them.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Passing a bunch of legislation ensuring an election in May and stating that the current interim President isn't running in said election doesn't really strike me as the kind of thing authoritarians do.

Sounds like pissed off Socialists are mad that their boy got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
 
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