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Positives to come from COVID-19

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
If you don't meet your metrics, getting fired is fair game. Perhaps their metrics are a bit more strict/demanding than other companies, but that sounds fair game to me. Those that take advantage of these sort of arrangements don't really deserve to have them and maybe they just aren't a fit for the company.
My point is not everyone does well with freedom. I read a study that at the beginning of COVID-19, everyone was super productive working from home (they were legit fearful of losing their job) but now productivity has begun to wane dramatically.
 

Preston

Well-known member
My point is not everyone does well with freedom. I read a study that at the beginning of COVID-19, everyone was super productive working from home (they were legit fearful of losing their job) but now productivity has begun to wane dramatically.
Any source for that? My company has legitimately had an increase in productivity, but I recognize that's a small sample size.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Any source for that? My company has legitimately had an increase in productivity, but I recognize that's a small sample size.
I didn't keep the link...I'm sure it was a small sample size as well. Just saying that WFH will take a while to sort out and optimize. And I don't think, it'll generate the same results in every field. There is a spark in face to face encounters that can't be captured via zoom. Of course, that spark is not required in accounting.
 

Preston

Well-known member
I didn't keep the link...I'm sure it was a small sample size as well. Just saying that WFH will take a while to sort out and optimize. And I don't think, it'll generate the same results in every field. There is a spark in face to face encounters that can't be captured via zoom. Of course, that spark is not required in accounting.
Of course. Might be worth paying a bit more attention to talent acquisition and recruiting as they would become far more important in any dynamic/flexible work arrangement. But at the end of the day, if an employee doesn't do a proper job, they will simply be replaced. It's very easy to gauge productivity of an employee so it's not like they could hide their lack of productivity. There are plenty who thrive on these arrangements as it will increase their job satisfaction and quality of life significantly. But you're right.. It may be more of a difficult adjustment for some than it is for others. Those people will likely be shit out of luck and require a standard office job in the end.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
It will suck for a lot of commerce -- not just food courts and commercial real estate. But also clothing retailers that don't sell sweatpants
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
with everything closed, we have gotten to do a lot more outdoor climbing than in previous years. I'm loving it.

also I am drinking so much less, and I have a hard time thinking that is ever going to change again.
 

soco22

Well-known member
There’s a heap of cost savings for both companies and employees with these flex arrangements. From late February I’ve been pressing all my clients to get rid of office space as fast as possible (one of my clients we will bankrupt to get out of their new 10 year lease). Also pushed clients to update their employee handbook for new work from home policies (ie. time worked at company = # of days out of office per week or month) or strategize on offering work from home in lieu of salary increases (employee personal cost savings > than typical raise)

Been over the employee standpoint of time wasted, transit, gas, work clothes, eating out for lunch more vs home food, dog care, less child care costs once kids back in school in sept (ie what to do between 3-5pm when working from office) etc

For commercial property owners in some of the best spots in Toronto, once companies stop renewing their leases - be intriguing how much space is converted to residential property.
 

GEEMAN

Well-known member
Going to the office is fine. I think the problem is do it 2 times a week. So many days people are there for no reason.
I find as well I work more hours at home. I don't have to close anything up to beat traffc.
Was home for 4 months and worked more hours for sure .

Its great if you have all the tools to do your job properly . Some aspects of jobs cant be done from home if you have many departments to deal with and you need answers right away .

Our office will be on a rotating monthly basis so we all get 2-3 months at home , that's fine for me .

Total isolation is not good for the mind , you need some personal contact
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
My point is not everyone does well with freedom. I read a study that at the beginning of COVID-19, everyone was super productive working from home (they were legit fearful of losing their job) but now productivity has begun to wane dramatically.
Not only not everyone does well, but most don't do well.

There was a WSJ article about this the other day, that companies are now struggling with their personnel working from home. There is something to be said for working in an office and having various forms of accountability that you just don't have when lounging around in your underwear with a laptop beside you all day.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Not only not everyone does well, but most don't do well.

There was a WSJ article about this the other day, that companies are now struggling with their personnel working from home. There is something to be said for working in an office and having various forms of accountability that you just don't have when lounging around in your underwear with a laptop beside you all day.
yes thank you, that's one of the articles I had read on the topic
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
yes thank you, that's one of the articles I had read on the topic
I can't recall exactly all the points raised in it, but basically they were having a tough time coordinating work between people, workers being on while others are off and then vice versa, having accountability issues not able to connect to people, training newbies is extremely difficult, etc.
 

Preston

Well-known member
I still think that if you have employees who aren't capable of handling the extra freedom, you can probably do a lot better at talent acquisition. Many companies who switch to flexible work arrangements may need to purge out the trash before it works in the end. And for those employees who can't handle the freedom they just may need to look elsewhere and find a company that provides more structure for them. Nothing wrong with that either.

For my company in particular, our measures of productivity have been through the roof since the pandemic began and have only gotten stronger as we've implemented new software to help with mobile work. When we start returning to our physical office it's going to be a lot more flexible because of how well these arrangements have worked.
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
So Netflix has been doing that for a decade. You don't need to ask for sick days or vacay. Just get your work done according to pre-agreed metrics.

Sounds great. I would love it. But the amount of workers who get fired at Netflix is way above average.
True enough, they are notoriously harsh about pulling the rug on people. If they feel for one second that you're slacking, they chop you and go with the next guy. I've negotiated their employment agreements for clients, and I've never seen anything like it. It's like a letter from a passive aggressive friend that they ask you to sign. Here's how it starts out:

This Agreement Regarding Your Netflix Employment (“Agreement”) sets forth the terms under which you and
Netflix will work together.
You’re an at-will employee. This means that you have no obligation to stay at Netflix if you don’t
like your work for any reason, and we can terminate you at any time, for any reason, including if we
don’t believe you have what it takes to be a Netflix employee
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
True enough, they are notoriously harsh about pulling the rug on people. If they feel for one second that you're slacking, they chop you and go with the next guy. I've negotiated their employment agreements for clients, and I've never seen anything like it. It's like a letter from a passive aggressive friend that they ask you to sign. Here's how it starts out:

This Agreement Regarding Your Netflix Employment (“Agreement”) sets forth the terms under which you and
Netflix will work together.
You’re an at-will employee. This means that you have no obligation to stay at Netflix if you don’t
like your work for any reason, and we can terminate you at any time, for any reason, including if we
don’t believe you have what it takes to be a Netflix employee
wow. they aren't sugar coating it, which I guess is a good thing. Nothing worse than all the BS HR departments that pretend to be on your side.
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
I still think that if you have employees who aren't capable of handling the extra freedom, you can probably do a lot better at talent acquisition. Many companies who switch to flexible work arrangements may need to purge out the trash before it works in the end. And for those employees who can't handle the freedom they just may need to look elsewhere and find a company that provides more structure for them. Nothing wrong with that either.

For my company in particular, our measures of productivity have been through the roof since the pandemic began and have only gotten stronger as we've implemented new software to help with mobile work. When we start returning to our physical office it's going to be a lot more flexible because of how well these arrangements have worked.
some people perform better with additional 'pressure' or oversight.

I can think of a few friends who I can safely assume are more productive working out of their offices just because of the accountability. it's a mixed bag. some people are like you and thrive on their own, others need the oversight.
 

Preston

Well-known member
some people perform better with additional 'pressure' or oversight.

I can think of a few friends who I can safely assume are more productive working out of their offices just because of the accountability. it's a mixed bag. some people are like you and thrive on their own, others need the oversight.
Yup. In any case, they're gonezo if they aren't performing adequately so an employee can find an employer that optimally suits their own strengths in the end. It'll work itself out organically.
 
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