OT: The Toronto Blue Jays
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MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I say we let them cook.
worm
Well-known member
This is the most entertaining the Jays have been all season
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Consdering, all of these players missed significant time this year
NYY-Judge, Cole, Rodon, Bellinger, Grisham
BOS- Anthony, Crotchet
HOU-Brown
It takes a special brand of lazy or stupid to suggest the Jays are not good this year cause of injuries.
The sort of stupid that jerks off to SWR while not understanding why Soriano is good, the sort of stupid that thinks position players pitching should be banned, and the sort of stupid that no matter how many people using how many different crayons try to explain that Ernie Clement has been one of the worst 2B in MLB this year they still cry, BUT HITS, and has fond memories of the WS run.
We are in this spot because of Vlad, underperforming co-stars, and some frankly bad co-stars, as well a decimated pitching staff, but we were pretty fucked anyways before most of that happened.
Gimenez/Clement cant happen next year, neither can hit, and one is a bad defender, but the good defender can play either spot, and the bad defender shifting to the bench, would vastly improve said shit bench
Santander, you probably cant use this guy as an everyday DH, he seems cooked, and i dont think you can go internal as of now.
Lukes/Bateman/Barger
If you are good everywhere else, i guess you can use this as an OF?, its defensively strong, and none of them are bad hitters, but 2 of them are not everyday players and there is no RHH friend for one, let alone both of Barger/Lukes, and as much as i like both corners. Its the easiest spot in the world to find an upgrade, save for Clement, and also the least expensive.
yes, they need a SP, the good news is, if this FA has alot of something, it's 3/4's
NYY-Judge, Cole, Rodon, Bellinger, Grisham
BOS- Anthony, Crotchet
HOU-Brown
It takes a special brand of lazy or stupid to suggest the Jays are not good this year cause of injuries.
The sort of stupid that jerks off to SWR while not understanding why Soriano is good, the sort of stupid that thinks position players pitching should be banned, and the sort of stupid that no matter how many people using how many different crayons try to explain that Ernie Clement has been one of the worst 2B in MLB this year they still cry, BUT HITS, and has fond memories of the WS run.
We are in this spot because of Vlad, underperforming co-stars, and some frankly bad co-stars, as well a decimated pitching staff, but we were pretty fucked anyways before most of that happened.
Gimenez/Clement cant happen next year, neither can hit, and one is a bad defender, but the good defender can play either spot, and the bad defender shifting to the bench, would vastly improve said shit bench
Santander, you probably cant use this guy as an everyday DH, he seems cooked, and i dont think you can go internal as of now.
Lukes/Bateman/Barger
If you are good everywhere else, i guess you can use this as an OF?, its defensively strong, and none of them are bad hitters, but 2 of them are not everyday players and there is no RHH friend for one, let alone both of Barger/Lukes, and as much as i like both corners. Its the easiest spot in the world to find an upgrade, save for Clement, and also the least expensive.
yes, they need a SP, the good news is, if this FA has alot of something, it's 3/4's
UWHabs
Well-known member
I think injuries hit the Jays more than most teams, given how close they are to a playoff spot, it's a valid part of the reason. Especially since it really hit the SP hard, it's hard to catch up to that. Vlad playing like Clement has probably been the biggest reason though, you can only afford to have a couple guys like that in the lineup, and certainly can't have one who you expect to be your top hitter.
I'm not sure which of Gimenez and Clement you're calling a bad defender, they're both above average. But at the same time, they're both bad hitters, and neither this year was elite enough to justify playing every game. They're both better than a platoon player, but if you play them both like 75% of the time, that covers a good chunk of 2b/ss. You just need someone who can reliably fill in for about half a player though on top of them.
Santander, yeah, I think he's missed too much to count on him. If he actually can return and hit, great. But 1/3 of the season last year where he was worse than terrible, and then missing the rest, and missing all of this year, I think you treat that as a sunk cost, and if by magic he's healthy and back to where he was before, you can find a spot for him.
And yeah, that OF (if Barger is healthy) is ok, but all lefties is scary.
So yeah, it's not the end of the world. Despite the injuries, the team is still fighting for a playoff spot with a week and a half left in the season, and around .500. If Vlad remembers how to play baseball, then you don't need to go wild to at least be a decent team again next year, there's not a lot of significant guys that you expect negative regression for, or guys they lose in FA.
I'm not sure which of Gimenez and Clement you're calling a bad defender, they're both above average. But at the same time, they're both bad hitters, and neither this year was elite enough to justify playing every game. They're both better than a platoon player, but if you play them both like 75% of the time, that covers a good chunk of 2b/ss. You just need someone who can reliably fill in for about half a player though on top of them.
Santander, yeah, I think he's missed too much to count on him. If he actually can return and hit, great. But 1/3 of the season last year where he was worse than terrible, and then missing the rest, and missing all of this year, I think you treat that as a sunk cost, and if by magic he's healthy and back to where he was before, you can find a spot for him.
And yeah, that OF (if Barger is healthy) is ok, but all lefties is scary.
So yeah, it's not the end of the world. Despite the injuries, the team is still fighting for a playoff spot with a week and a half left in the season, and around .500. If Vlad remembers how to play baseball, then you don't need to go wild to at least be a decent team again next year, there's not a lot of significant guys that you expect negative regression for, or guys they lose in FA.
Pwner
Well-known member
I think a lot of the Jays troubles this year can be explained by this:
Also, their offence hasn't been good enough, but their pitching and defence should have gotten them into a wild card position in this very mid AL.
- Shane Bieber – 15-day IL (Right teres major/elbow inflammation)
- Jameson Taillon – 15-day IL (Right forearm tendinitis)
- Trey Yesavage – 15-day IL (Left meniscus surgery / right meniscus injury)
- Jake Bloss – 60-day IL
- Yimi García – 60-day IL (Elbow/neck/biceps surgery)
- Patrick Corbin – 60-day IL (Shoulder / left teres major strain)
- Cody Ponce – 60-day IL (Torn right ACL)
- José Berríos – 60-day IL (Tommy John surgery)
- Bowden Francis – 60-day IL (Tommy John surgery
Also, their offence hasn't been good enough, but their pitching and defence should have gotten them into a wild card position in this very mid AL.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
Vladamir being Vladamir, by my math, probably makes them an 85-86 win team? Not good enough of course, but hardly a record that one would classify as having "massive" issues. A couple of upgrades to their hitting, and more health luck with their elite pitching staff, and they can easily get to 90.
Obviously you'd want to replace Springer with a stud type and be less reliant on Vladamir carrying the load, and no one ever said that would be easy to find. But I think we need to tone down the dramatic language about how far away they are. I get that emotions are high and this team has tortured some, but let's try our best to be based in reality.
Obviously you'd want to replace Springer with a stud type and be less reliant on Vladamir carrying the load, and no one ever said that would be easy to find. But I think we need to tone down the dramatic language about how far away they are. I get that emotions are high and this team has tortured some, but let's try our best to be based in reality.
CH1
The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Clement has been a bad defender all season
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
A lot of these pitchers are replacement level or worse
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Vlad is going to probably be a 1.5-2 win guy, regular Vlad doesn’t bump us to 86, maybe everyone healthy does. So if our ceiling is an 85 win team with the leagues worst offense why am I getting pushback from the county fucktard that we need at least 2 positional upgrades?
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Looks like nobody agrees with your fat takes.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
Yes if Vlad is 1.5-2 instead of the 5-6 that it was looking like he was back in spring, then "massive issues" holds more water. Like the Leafs with Matthews, obviously they're gonna need Vlad to be way better than that, otherwise they're cooked.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
But that doesn’t mean you just hope Vlad bounces back and sit on your hands
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
ackshually...
Vlad not hitting is a problem but I've never really loved this lineup aside from a magical month and a half where they turned into the best slugging lineup in the world and almost won the whole fucking thing.
If Vlad is a top 5-10 stick as usual and we cap out at 84-85 wins, that's uhhhh...not fucking good. The goal shouldn't be to spend 280 million to win 88-90 games if everything goes right.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
Well ya I didn't suggest that either. But obviously this entire operation is contingent on him bouncing back. Gonna be real tough to go very far if he doesn't. I'm just saying that if he does bounce back, there's probably a very clear path to 90 wins next year with a couple of modest reinforcements and a little more injury luck.
But if he doesn't... MASSIVE issues.
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