Paulie Walnuts
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Hamilton can talk to other teams now. Might be sign and trade
2021 Hurricanes Post Season/Summer Thread
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I've heard that from enough sources to believe it. The staff didn't get cheated out anything, but they expected pay bumps after success and with no revenue in the forecast, Dundon didn't agree. I understand the Canes weren't the only club who put the squeeze on personnel with contracts that expired after the 19-20 season, but ... whatever. I'm sure they would rather have kept Chynoweth on staff, and maybe they still can. Until he's gone, he's not gone.
Sara Civian’s updated protected list. She has Geekie as the 7th forward, recognizing the outsized contribution Tampa’s 4th line made in the series. It’s also because the Canes have to expose 2 forwards who are under contract for next season and played at least e0 games in 2020-21 or 70 games combined in 2019-20 and 2020-21. Protecting Fast leaves the Canes 1 player short of that requirement. The only forwards who meet that requirement are Aho, Staal, Turbo, Nino, Trocheck, Fast and Lorentz. I think that Foegele will meet it when/if the Canes give him a QO (if that date is prior to the submission date) and if they sign McGinn and/or Martinook before the July 18 submission, they’d qualify.
theathletic.com
Hurricanes protected list: Who stays and who goes in the Kraken expansion draft?
Jordan Staal and Jaccob Slavin? Obvious keepers. But the Hurricanes face some other, tougher decisions as they build their protected list.
theathletic.com
I remember him as a Devil before he went to Colorado and disappeared. He was fairly well regarded as a young player but I'm not sure what happened to him after that. Looking at just the basics, he seems to have found his game in Sweden this past season. If nothing else he gives the Canes another depth guy with some experience, and size.
Fast is exactly the kind of cheap veteran leadership that Ronnie is supposedly targeting. If you expose him, you have to assume he's gone ... so you'd only expose him if you're cool with losing him. He's got a LOT more to give than Carolina got out of him last season, for a variety of reasons ... so maybe they're cool with exposing him. From there you pick one from Foegele, Lorentz, and Geekie to protect, because you know full well they're going to qualify Foegele. I protect Foegele out of that group all day.Sara Civian’s updated protected list. She has Geekie as the 7th forward, recognizing the outsized contribution Tampa’s 4th line made in the series. It’s also because the Canes have to expose 2 forwards who are under contract for next season and played at least e0 games in 2020-21 or 70 games combined in 2019-20 and 2020-21. Protecting Fast leaves the Canes 1 player short of that requirement. The only forwards who meet that requirement are Aho, Staal, Turbo, Nino, Trocheck, Fast and Lorentz. I think that Foegele will meet it when/if the Canes give him a QO (if that date is prior to the submission date) and if they sign McGinn and/or Martinook before the July 18 submission, they’d qualify.
Hurricanes protected list: Who stays and who goes in the Kraken expansion draft?
Jordan Staal and Jaccob Slavin? Obvious keepers. But the Hurricanes face some other, tougher decisions as they build their protected list.
D is tougher because the call has to do with Dougie and none of us know where that's going. If you're losing him then you want to protect Bean and hope that Skjei's stupid contract wards off the vampires. If you think you can re-sign him, then you can protect the guts of your top 4 otherwise and hope Bean doesn't come back to bite you in the butt down the road. Frankly, I saw Bean 50 times this year and I have no idea what he's going to be. He's got more upside than Fleury did, but he's got that same frustrating reluctance to freaking do things.
To clarify, per Elliotte Friedman, the Canes gave Hamilton’s agent, JP Barry, permission to talk to other teams. It would likely lead to a sign and trade. At this point, the Canes are the only team who can extend a 8 year deal. If another team wants to extend the contract to an 8th year for cap purposes, the Canes and the other team would have to do a sign and trade, But LeBrun says neither side are in any rush at this point.
Keep in mind as we move forward .... Friedman is dialed in to Dougie's agent and LeBrun is dialed in to Waddell. Their info is probably going to conflict as some point, so it's important to filter info by source.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
If that really goes down than that would be a completely brand new approach for NHL teams. We see teams trade pending UFA rights around for draft picks every offseason, but I'm almost positive that there has been no execution of a sign and trade where the player/agent are given permission to talk to other teams and then have the team the player is currently under contract to sign a max term extension, terms agreed to by the other team, and then the player is traded to that other team. That hasn't ever happened before in the NHL since the salary cap and the CBA rule allowing only a player's current team to sign that player for an 8 year extension term.
Trading UFA rights for a player of Dougie's caliber would be worth either a 3rd or possibly a 2nd round pick from highly motivated team. So what is the price for the Canes effectively facilitating another team's signing of Dougie to an 8 year deal? That would be a precedent setting trade.
Whatever ends up happening, nothing will actually be officially executed until after the expansion draft is conducted.
Trading UFA rights for a player of Dougie's caliber would be worth either a 3rd or possibly a 2nd round pick from highly motivated team. So what is the price for the Canes effectively facilitating another team's signing of Dougie to an 8 year deal? That would be a precedent setting trade.
Whatever ends up happening, nothing will actually be officially executed until after the expansion draft is conducted.
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You'd have to think you're talking about a high pick AND an effective NHL player ... or a quality prospect and an NHL player. If they weren't fully sold on Ned, I'd be suggesting that the NHL player be a young goaltender. Maybe one of the two that the Rangers have at their disposal.
And for the record, I wouldn't ship Dougie's right for anything less than a 2nd rounder. If you can't gin up a bidding war for the rights to a shot at the best UFA defenseman likely to come to market in the next 2-3 years then I don't know what all.
cmaleski2
Well-known member
If you are optimist, you can look at this as the Canes putting themselves in a similar situation as the Aho negotiations ended up at. Now Dougie and his agent can go out and find an offer from some other team that they like and if Dougie still wants to stay here, the Canes can say 'yeah, we will match that'. If the Canes choose not to match the offer and sign Dougie to that deal and trade him, we might be setting a precedent for squeezing value out of a high end pending UFA
If you are a pessimist, you call BS on the above because Dougie is a pending UFA and the Canes have no safety net/protection if he finds a deal elsewhere. Now you have given Dougie even more time to realize that some other teams really are willing to go huge on a deal that we know the Canes will never consider matching. He's gone, almost certainly, this just makes it even more likely. The middling prospect and draft pick we MIGHT get are noted but crap compensation.
The realist knows the truth lies somewhere in the middle of that?
Get ready for soap opera level stuff here. Does Dougie REALLY want to stay here, or is he like 99% of professional athletes and the #1, #2 and #3 factors are money, money, and money? Do the Canes REALLY make ANY offer that even comes close to Dougie's real value or just throw out some insulting lowball offers using excuses like 'flat cap makes things hard' or 'well, he's not much of a playoff force' or 'yeah, we can fill that hole 'smarter and cheaper'? Will Dougie find happiness in extreme wealth and possibly a less than friendly hockey media market (will he care at all if the media calls him lazy, soft, not a winner?)
All playing out mostly behind closed doors until after the expansion draft unless the pundits keep getting fed dirt by the various involved parties.
If you are a pessimist, you call BS on the above because Dougie is a pending UFA and the Canes have no safety net/protection if he finds a deal elsewhere. Now you have given Dougie even more time to realize that some other teams really are willing to go huge on a deal that we know the Canes will never consider matching. He's gone, almost certainly, this just makes it even more likely. The middling prospect and draft pick we MIGHT get are noted but crap compensation.
The realist knows the truth lies somewhere in the middle of that?
Get ready for soap opera level stuff here. Does Dougie REALLY want to stay here, or is he like 99% of professional athletes and the #1, #2 and #3 factors are money, money, and money? Do the Canes REALLY make ANY offer that even comes close to Dougie's real value or just throw out some insulting lowball offers using excuses like 'flat cap makes things hard' or 'well, he's not much of a playoff force' or 'yeah, we can fill that hole 'smarter and cheaper'? Will Dougie find happiness in extreme wealth and possibly a less than friendly hockey media market (will he care at all if the media calls him lazy, soft, not a winner?)
All playing out mostly behind closed doors until after the expansion draft unless the pundits keep getting fed dirt by the various involved parties.
I'm trying pretty hard to stay in the middle on all of this. Dougie doesn't hate it here and isn't an idiot, so I figure the Canes have a shot if given a chance to match an offer from somebody with less of a chance to win something. He's been in a couple of bad fit situations, so I think he's going to wary of that as well. And given that he's a young UFA (would be 35 at the end of an 8 year deal), I'm a little less wary on maxing out the term than I would be if he was in Peitrangelo's age bracket.
For me, it probably comes down to whether or not Dundon is willing to go hard on the money. If he isn't, I get it. I think it's going to be hard to compete for a Cup without a difference maker in the blueline group, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. But if he ends up signing somewhere for less than $9 mil over 7 years then I'm gonna be a little salty.
For me, it probably comes down to whether or not Dundon is willing to go hard on the money. If he isn't, I get it. I think it's going to be hard to compete for a Cup without a difference maker in the blueline group, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. But if he ends up signing somewhere for less than $9 mil over 7 years then I'm gonna be a little salty.
StormChaserBH
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The Leafs board here sure is salivating over making him wear blue next year... I might have to stop reading the rest of FIce until it's settled one way or the other.
Not sure how they think the Leafs can afford the contract, but ... whatever. Dougie would light their power play on absolute fire, so I get the general idea. And I avoid that board like the plague in the off season, man. Leafs fan math is just ... it's too much.
CanadaCanes
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The Leafs fan sites that I browse seem to point to some sort of Reilly for Hamilton deal to make the money work...Reilly is a left shot D but most Leaf fans do not see Reilly as a guy that fits cap wise moving forward when he needs a new contract a year from now. From a Canes standpoint, I wouldn’t mind getting a solid top four defenseman back in a Dougie trade if it was about balancing cap space and cash...like someone else said, there is more than one way to skin a cat...we all know a Dougie departure leaves a giant hole regardless.
I think we won’t be as good without him, but I also think he’s not worth what he might want and can probably get from someone.
could be the Canes are letting him figure out what he can get on the market before making their offer.
I don’t see him as where you want 8m tied up for 6-8 years. I think someone will regret that deal within a few years.
That said I’m concerned the longer Brindy and Dougie and the other coaches go unsigned.
could be the Canes are letting him figure out what he can get on the market before making their offer.
I don’t see him as where you want 8m tied up for 6-8 years. I think someone will regret that deal within a few years.
That said I’m concerned the longer Brindy and Dougie and the other coaches go unsigned.
Gotta be honest here ... my primary concern is the "won't be as good without him" part. It's 100% accurate and it takes the Canes from a B level contender back to where we were two years ago. I just don't think it needs to happen. The Canes are gonna spend to the Cap either way, so why let one potentially bad contract for a proven difference maker screw up the whole process. It's not like they don't have other bad contracts ... every team does. It would be beyond frustrating to take a step back over cheaping out on one unique player right when you're maybe one or two other small moves away from sliding into legit contender status.
bagopux
Well-known member
Couple of things: Here's another optimistic view: Let's suppose Dougie does really want to stay because its a good fit and he knows what bad fits are like, and the team is winning and still improving. But he also wants to maximize his contract with the Canes. What can he do now to make the Canes anxious? Ask to speak to other teams. It's just a negotiating tactic.
Second, I don't agree that 99% of pro athletes just want to maximize their return. The ones that make the news normally do. But there are plenty who re-sign with their current team because stability is important and keeping their families happy is important. If John Tevares re-signed with the Islanders during his last season there, not a huge news story. But he goes to the FA market and shops around and gets a big contract in a big market. It's a big story. The news is skewed toward the guys who maximize their return, but that doesn't mean that 99% of athletes are just for the money. I guess that's another optimistic view.
All true but that potentially bad contract can also preclude you from making other moves that would keep you at b contender level or bump you down. We’re really in a no win situation. We either overpay or we lose him. Unless Dougie is smart enough to see that his career trajectory is likely to be better if he agrees to a non overpaid amount in all ways other than a salary grab.
I mean, are you in a no win situation with Brady Skjei right now? He's VERY over paid and I don't think that anybody really cares all that much ... since I'm the only one who ever brings it up. That's a terrible contract and I've seen Canes fans losing their stuff over the slightest possibility of losing that guy to expansion.
It just doesn't work to micromanage the roster to the point that every single player has to be slotted correctly on the payroll chart. Some guys are going to be over paid, just like some guys are going to be under paid. You have to draw the line, but pending free agency IS an expanding force on payroll ... while ELCs play the opposite role.
It just doesn't work to micromanage the roster to the point that every single player has to be slotted correctly on the payroll chart. Some guys are going to be over paid, just like some guys are going to be under paid. You have to draw the line, but pending free agency IS an expanding force on payroll ... while ELCs play the opposite role.
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