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Around the League 2019-2020 Edition

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Hockey has no excuses...just copy what works in MLB, NBA etc.

Hell, even my Expos made Dombrowski their GM when he was 31...it was considered ridiculously young at the time. That was back in 1988.

NHL is dumb compared to all the other leagues I follow.
 

zeke

Well-known member
Hockey has no excuses...just copy what works in MLB, NBA etc.

Hell, even my Expos made Dombrowski their GM when he was 31...it was considered ridiculous at the time

"Stats don't work in hockey- if you like them so much go watch baseball"
 

GEEMAN

Well-known member
Dumb GM's

I think the root cause is kind of split between two things:

1) It's easy for us to sit back and take a long term view of things. We know that signing a mediocre (or worse) 30-31 yr old UFA to a 5 year contract is a fucking mistake. But the GM himself is thinking far more short term than that. He currently holds one of the very few 7 figure management jobs in hockey and if he has a mandate to compete, make the playoffs (a lot of owners want that sweet playoff revenue. Even just one round can be the difference between losing money and making money on the year), etc...then that's what he's trying to do. If he sees a hole in his middle 6 that can be filled by 30 yr old David Backes, but Backes wants 6 years...that's a problem for later right? This year it might help make the playoffs, maybe win a round, and create a few more years of 7 figure job security. It's really hard to look beyond your own bank account, especially if the boss isn't willing to be patient.

2) There are a lot of legacy hockey people around that still value the wrong things. If you run around throwing hits, you've got "jam" and you "play the right way" results be damned. If you chase the puck around in your end but throw cross-checks into the kidneys in front of the net you're "hard to play against". If you're willing to block shots with your face, you're a leader, warrior, etc. Just look at that list of questionable as **** contracts. Pull up capfriendly and look at most of the worst contracts on the books around the league, most of them are that guy or stars that age poorly.
Great post as always but the success rate on these moronic moves is what .1/100 .

You and I weren’t big fans of the Tavares signing as an example

But JT is a 1C going to a team that has elite front line talent and is trending upwards

He may or not be the missing piece or difference maker long term , that’s the risk you take

But at least you have a chance with this transaction and you deal with the contract later

You rarely get the opportunity to add this player or Pietrangelo on good teams

The rest are guaranteed failures .
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Great post as always but the success rate on these moronic moves is what .1/100 .

You and I weren’t big fans of the Tavares signing as an example

But JT is a 1C going to a team that has elite front line talent and is trending upwards

He may or not be the missing piece or difference maker long term , that’s the risk you take

But at least you have a chance with this transaction and you deal with the contract later

You rarely get the opportunity to add this player or Pietrangelo on good teams

The rest are guaranteed failures .

oh, 100%. Signing Erik Karlsson at 29 yrs old and having it blow up in your face is a way different move than signing Karl Alzner and having it blow up. Getting elite talent on your roster is a necessity to win a title, and that's worth taking risks. You can find a Bogosian or three in free agency for dirt **** all every summer who is a reasonable enough copy of the Alzner/Edmundson/whatever guy that your GM thinks that you need. There is no cheaper version of Erik Karlsson available, ever.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
There has never been a more glaring example of nerdly newskool than Dubas. It would force a reckoning

You have too much faith in the league...
IMO, a bunch of orgs would not be swayed....they'd say Auston Matthews is the product of a lottery ball. And Marner was a sweet #4 pick.

Pens won titles with Crosby and Malkin. No nerdiness required. Just luck.
 

GEEMAN

Well-known member
oh, 100%. Signing Erik Karlsson at 29 yrs old and having it blow up in your face is a way different move than signing Karl Alzner and having it blow up. Getting elite talent on your roster is a necessity to win a title, and that's worth taking risks. You can find a Bogosian or three in free agency for dirt **** all every summer who is a reasonable enough copy of the Alzner/Edmundson/whatever guy that your GM thinks that you need. There is no cheaper version of Erik Karlsson available, ever.
True with EK skill wise , but he was already showing signs of decline

Sharks competitive window is over , is that a wise choice for 8 years

Or was it simply Wilson saying , fuk I can’t lose him for nothing after what I gave up to get him
 

zeke

Well-known member
You have too much faith in the league...
IMO, a bunch of orgs would not be swayed....they'd say Auston Matthews is the product of a lottery ball. And Marner was a sweet #4 pick.

Pens won titles with Crosby and Malkin. No nerdiness required. Just luck.

OK then he has to win back to back then.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Hockey has no excuses...just copy what works in MLB, NBA etc.

Hell, even my Expos made Dombrowski their GM when he was 31...it was considered ridiculously young at the time. That was back in 1988.

NHL is dumb compared to all the other leagues I follow.

It's been the same argument made in each sport as they've slowly been dragged from the dark ages. Each sport has needed it's touchstone moment for everyone to really get it. In Baseball it was Oakland competing on food stamps when they should have been terrible. In the NBA it was Golden State breaking the way we knew to be winning basketball (in fairness, Houston was doing it before them...but GS clearly did it best).

The NHL has yet to have their moment where the other organizations scramble to catch up with one or a few organizations who dominate year in, year out. I think the amount of luck involved in winning in the NHL as compared to the other major sports plays a huge part in that though. It's really easy to cling to a random example of success as doing it the right way.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
It's been the same argument made in each sport as they've slowly been dragged from the dark ages. Each sport has needed it's touchstone moment for everyone to really get it. In Baseball it was Oakland competing on food stamps when they should have been terrible. In the NBA it was Golden State breaking the way we knew to be winning basketball (in fairness, Houston was doing it before them...but GS clearly did it best).

The NHL has yet to have their moment where the other organizations scramble to catch up with one or a few organizations who dominate year in, year out. I think the amount of luck involved in winning in the NHL as compared to the other major sports plays a huge part in that though. It's really easy to cling to a random example of success as doing it the right way.

I think Tampa is already a pretty good example.

The problem with hockey, in my eyes, is there simply might not be enough talent to adequately feed 32 teams.

The amount of 16 yr olds playing hockey around the world right now is fucking puny compared to basketball, baseball, American and Euro football, etc

So without the talent, half the league will always try to win by trying not to lose..and doing non skill things in the process.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
I think Tampa is already a pretty good example.

The problem with hockey, in my eyes, is there simply might not be enough talent to adequately feed 32 teams.

The amount of 16 yr olds playing hockey around the world right now is fucking puny compared to basketball, baseball, American and Euro football, etc

So without the talent, half the league will always try to win by trying not to lose..and doing non skill things in the process.

Also a good point and probably a good argument for calling the rulebook properly and letting "game management" go the way of the dinosaurs. If you allow teams to have success by ostensibly breaking the rules regularly (but not quite in the way that gets called), then you're going to have unskilled teams build their entire program around playing that way, even if they're able to gain the talent necessary to play a much better brand of hockey. It becomes burnt into the DNA of the organization after a while.
 

GEEMAN

Well-known member
I think Tampa is already a pretty good example.

The problem with hockey, in my eyes, is there simply might not be enough talent to adequately feed 32 teams.

The amount of 16 yr olds playing hockey around the world right now is fucking puny compared to basketball, baseball, American and Euro football, etc

So without the talent, half the league will always try to win by trying not to lose..and doing non skill things in the process.

I think it’s more than talent . There are a ton of young skilled players at the draft table

True the lack of elite talent may not be there every year but teams that suck for too long , have no excuses .

I think teams are poor at team development and trying to find an identity

Nero had 9 years to figure out what the heck he wants his team to be

First it’s lets build from the draft , then let’s go big , then small and skilled

Start , restart , patch and pray is what most regimes do , especially when management teams get sacked more often now.

Our failures are at the draft table , we missed on too many players maybe not elite but would put us in a much better position now.

A style of trying to win by not trying to lose is made worse when your trying to play finesse players like Mete or Hudon types in roles they can’t fill.
 

zeke

Well-known member
John Chayka did a lot of damage to that demographic. Might need a couple Cups to undo that damage.

Yep, the stumbles of the nerds in recent years has actually probably increased the doubling down on old skool gritty management.

And a huge part of that was the Leafs losing points after losing Lou, and the Isles becoming a good playoffs team with him.

Turning around that equation would go a long way to reversing tbe trend.
 
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