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Around the League 2019-2021 Edition

hockeylover

Well-known member
I think you're right that the idea you could "retool" an organization that was doing almost everything from top to bottom pretty poorly was a bad plan.

i also think in general when an elite talent at that age is available you should go for it, but if you suck/make poor decisions in every other area, yeah, it's going to go to waste.
 

WellPlayed

Well-known member
I can see the case not loving the trade. Soft, one dimensional winger (hell of a dimension though) for what turned into a pretty good #1 C and a good top pair dman. Seguin is shit now but the injuries really fucked him up. Trade vs. where the team was at was a bit weird.

I get the argument on either side. Trying to dunk on the whole board over it though? Settle down.
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
I get where LOF's coming from on this. Sure, you "win" the Kessel trade, in that we got the best player in the deal.

But then you're a bubble playoff team with a one elite young player (who plays on the wing), a mediocre, aging supporting cast headlined by Stajan & Grabovski as your top two centers, horrible goaltending, a bad defense core, no good prospects and no high picks for the next two seasons.

Where's the path from that to contending?
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
I get where LOF's coming from on this. Sure, you "win" the Kessel trade, in that we got the best player in the deal.

But then you're a bubble playoff team with a one elite young player (who plays on the wing), a mediocre, aging supporting cast headlined by Stajan & Grabovski as your top two centers, horrible goaltending, a bad defense core, no good prospects and no high picks for the next two seasons.

Where's the path from that to contending?
Bravo. Finally.
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
I think you're right that the idea you could "retool" an organization that was doing almost everything from top to bottom pretty poorly was a bad plan.

i also think in general when an elite talent at that age is available you should go for it, but if you suck/make poor decisions in every other area, yeah, it's going to go to waste.
You make that Kessel trade when your house is fully constructed and all that’s left is your roof. You don’t make it when you haven’t even got the foundation in place.
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
I can see the case not loving the trade. Soft, one dimensional winger (hell of a dimension though) for what turned into a pretty good #1 C and a good top pair dman. Seguin is shit now but the injuries really fucked him up. Trade vs. where the team was at was a bit weird.

I get the argument on either side. Trying to dunk on the whole board over it though? Settle down.
How the trade worked out for Toronto and Boston respectively in a vacuum where all you’re looking at is who got the better end of it misses the point entirely and it’s pretty silly that you still need this explained.
 

WellPlayed

Well-known member
How the trade worked out for Toronto and Boston respectively in a vacuum where all you’re looking at is who got the better end of it misses the point entirely and it’s pretty silly that you still need this explained.
I said "trade vs where the team was at was a bit weird."

And I'm one of the few people here who sees your point. I just think you're overstating how bad it was when you pull an article from mapleleafstraderumors69.net to try to dunk on the board for a position you took 10 years ago that got your feelings hurt.
 
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LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
I said "trade vs where the team was at was a bit weird."

And I'm one of the few people here who sees your point, dummy. I just think you're overstating how bad it was when you pull an article from mapleleafstraderumors69.net to try to dunk on the board for a position you took 10 years ago that got your feelings hurt.
Dummy, I’m saying there’s no point in talking about which player did better or worse or why, which was the crux of the post and keeps sending the discussion spiraling into tangents. Just the part about the sense of making a deal like that considering where we were is all I’ve ever been talking about. So settle down.
 

WellPlayed

Well-known member
Dummy, I’m saying there’s no point in talking about which player did better or worse or why, which was the crux of the post and keeps sending the discussion spiraling into tangents. Just the part about the sense of making a deal like that considering where we were is all I’ve ever been talking about. So settle down.
You linked to a blog post calling it the worst trade in franchise history, and said you took heat for that now prevailing wisdom. That's ridiculous, and that's how this all started. Let it go man.

But whatever, I look forward to your next dunk post for whatever other shoulder chips you're carrying around.

 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
I didn't subscribe to the "worst trade in franchise history" part (first trade that comes to mind as worst ever was Courtnall for Kordic). I don't even remember that being part of the headline because I don't pay attention to the subjective hyperbole. It was simply the 10 year milestone or whatever the anniversary was, and the only jist was that it was a really bad trade that quite literally pulled the rug out from under that whole Burke era. The whole period was a waste of time.

I was surprised back then that absolutely no one agreed that it was a dumb move, and even more surprised that almost everyone is holding firm in that view now, but I guess I shouldn't be.
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
It was a good trade. You can argue whether it was the correct use of assets or made sense from the big picture. But the trade itself is not, and was not, the problem.
 

Oldman

New member
It was a good trade. You can argue whether it was the correct use of assets or made sense from the big picture. But the trade itself is not, and was not, the problem.
Bollocks. We were in position for an offer sheet. We had even made a bad trade to get one of our picks back to do so. Instead, Burke in his bluster gave up a larger package, and didn’t lottery protect the pick (I don’t even think lottery protection was a thing back then - it came after as a direct result of this trade).

All this to say, the trade itself was a problem
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
Bollocks. We were in position for an offer sheet. We had even made a bad trade to get one of our picks back to do so. Instead, Burke in his bluster gave up a larger package, and didn’t lottery protect the pick (I don’t even think lottery protection was a thing back then - it came after as a direct result of this trade).

All this to say, the trade itself was a problem
again, you are adding a whole bunch of extraneous considerations to the analysis in order to support your opinion.

if you told me that I could trade a bunch of lottery balls for a sure thing, and that sure thing is better than all but the faintest of lottery odds, I would do it again. and the proof remains in the pudding. the fact that Burke sucked otherwise doesn't mean every single thing he did was bad, although this seems to be an extraordinarily challenging concept for some to understand.

hell, I hate shapkins, but at least I give them credit for the good shit they do. and there is some.
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
Bollocks. We were in position for an offer sheet. We had even made a bad trade to get one of our picks back to do so. Instead, Burke in his bluster gave up a larger package, and didn’t lottery protect the pick (I don’t even think lottery protection was a thing back then - it came after as a direct result of this trade).

All this to say, the trade itself was a problem
we acquired a perennial 30 goal scorer who blossomed into a PPG player for three draft picks. none of which turned out to be better than the player we acquired. and the player we acquired was better than all previous Leaf draft picks for decades. if this is a shit trade, what is an example of a good one? Leafs GMs must have been completely incompetent for decades.
 

Preston

AKA: Preston Fauci. Prestauci.
In what world does a 21 year old blossoming stud like Kessel cost just two 1st rounders in 2022? That was a one of a kind opportunity. Burke destroying the rest of the team doesn't take away the fact that the value he received in that particular trade was a no brainer and I would have been pissed if he didn't take that opportunity. We have so many things to roast Burke over.. I just find it weird that we are choosing this.
 

BG

Well-known member
Burke's job was to put a competitive/entertaining team on the ice, and he figured that he could get it done by aggressively trading his way there - and I think he did very well by that measure. He needed star players to replace whatever you call the mess Cliff Fletcher left behind, and Kessel scored goals and sold jerseys.
 
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