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GDT #3 - Aug 6, 8pm, SN - Hammer Down

BeLeafer

resurrected
It would have been great to have Naz on the team this year. Of course, if he sneezed on JDL he'd be suspended. I've often thought the league's treatment of him was racist.

In any event, I'd still say Kerfoot is a good player and will be a better one on the long-term.
 

Habsy

Wrong Thinker Extraordinaire
"Culture change" in a professional organization that is known for holding its players accountable is arm chair pseudo psychological nonsense.

The problem in the playoffs so far has been our veterans choking in key moments starting in net.

It's amazing to me that the same narrative can persist despite watching Kessel and Bozak leave to be key performers on cup winning teams. Remember when they were part of the culture problem and you cant win with players like that? Its nonsense. This is simple...3-0 lead with a veteran starting goalie in net, no muffins and that game is over.

The antidote is winning. You cant have key veteran performers choking away big moments in tight playoff games. The kids not whipping their dicks out and dominating 60 minutes isnt the problem. People seem to want to expect rare performances from them as the benchmark while allowing others to slip by with pure disappointment and choking.
If the Leafs lose this series Babcock will be grinning and thinking "told you it wasn't me".

Nobody wants that.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
Yeah, Freddy is starting tonight., If they lose tonight or game 5, they gotta move him.
How much can Lehner command as UFA? He doesn't start that many games (Freddy should not be either).

Lehner isn't going to sign for under $5 million per. He might get $6 million+.

Between Lehner, Markstrom and Holtby, there are plenty of teams that could use goaltending upgrades that the better goalies will try to leverage as UFAs. These guys are going to get paid.
 

BeLeafer

resurrected
I nearly puked when Lehner got traded for a pittance and with a big red cherry on top -- the Leafs helping to facilitate the trade. That was my gut punch from this team this year.
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
I nearly puked when Lehner got traded for a pittance and with a big red cherry on top -- the Leafs helping to facilitate the trade. That was my gut punch from this team this year.


Yeah, that was gutting. I’ve wanted us to replace Freddy with Lehner for a couple of years now.
 

JackBurton

Well-known member
Lehner isn't going to sign for under $5 million per. He might get $6 million+.

Between Lehner, Markstrom and Holtby, there are plenty of teams that could use goaltending upgrades that the better goalies will try to leverage as UFAs. These guys are going to get paid.
We'll see. He ended up getting less than I thought he would last sumer.
 

leaffan2005

Well-known member
"Culture change" in a professional organization that is known for holding its players accountable is arm chair pseudo psychological nonsense.

The problem in the playoffs so far has been our veterans choking in key moments starting in net.

It's amazing to me that the same narrative can persist despite watching Kessel and Bozak leave to be key performers on cup winning teams. Remember when they were part of the culture problem and you cant win with players like that? Its nonsense. This is simple...3-0 lead with a veteran starting goalie in net, no muffins and that game is over.

The antidote is winning. You cant have key veteran performers choking away big moments in tight playoff games. The kids not whipping their dicks out and dominating 60 minutes isnt the problem. People seem to want to expect rare performances from them as the benchmark while allowing others to slip by with pure disappointment and choking.

Maybe culture change is the wrong word.

Sometimes teams need a different mix of players and the group itself doesn't work well together (i.e. if the chemistry isn't there, too many players playing the same way, etc.). Those players may have gone to a better situation for them and their team make-up was maybe better than what they had in Toronto. Doesn't mean they were always "winners" and only Freddy was holding them back from getting to the promised land.

Freddy hasn't been great, as per usual. I acknowledge this and it is definitely a problem. And nobody is asking them to go balls out and dominate 60 minutes of ice. But when you give up a goal or two, it isn't unreasonable for a team to implode and just stop skating/getting any scoring changes for the remainder of the game against a cold goalie who was just put into the game. They stopped playing the game that got them there and it is entirely a predictable result with this team as per their history. And it has been the same guys going away when these adverse points in the game hit.

At a certain point you have to make a change. Y'all thought it was Babs holding them back. Well, Keefe is here and still is still happening. If Anderson leaves and this still happens, what will be the excuse then?
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
If Anderson leaves and this still happens, what will be the excuse then?

I guess that depends on if the goaltending improves with Andersen being shown the door or not. "Andersen" isn't the problem. Bad goaltending is the problem. Good goaltending is the solution.

I guess I generally object to the idea that the Leafs imploded or stopped generating chances after the goalie change. Was there a short stretch where CBJ carried play and we were hemmed in? Yeah. Ebbs and flows in a hockey game is normal stuff. But I think some people are missing out on how big of a wash out the start of the game was (Leafs were up something around 20-7 in chances before Korpisaalo got pulled...that just fucking abnormal domination in a playoff game) and after getting rinsed for the rest of the 2nd period went 18-19 in chances (6-8 HD) in the 3rd and OT. That's not a collapse of any sort. That's a slight CBJ advantage, nothing more. Regular stuff against a tight system team like this. The only abnormal part of the game was the Leafs domination portion. When you dominate 25-28 minutes of a game and play the rest pretty much dead even, you should win almost every time.
 

MyNameIsJonas

Well-known member
I guess that depends on if the goaltending improves with Andersen being shown the door or not. "Andersen" isn't the problem. Bad goaltending is the problem. Good goaltending is the solution.

I guess I generally object to the idea that the Leafs imploded or stopped generating chances after the goalie change. Was there a short stretch where CBJ carried play and we were hemmed in? Yeah. Ebbs and flows in a hockey game is normal stuff. But I think some people are missing out on how big of a wash out the start of the game was (Leafs were up something around 20-7 in chances before Korpisaalo got pulled...that just fucking abnormal domination in a playoff game) and after getting rinsed for the rest of the 2nd period went 18-19 in chances (6-8 HD) in the 3rd and OT. That's not a collapse of any sort. That's a slight CBJ advantage, nothing more. Regular stuff against a tight system team like this. The only abnormal part of the game was the Leafs domination portion. When you dominate 25-28 minutes of a game and play the rest pretty much dead even, you should win almost every time.
Its silly rare in thin NHL for a team to dominate for 60 mins. Almost all teams up 3-0 in a playoff game take their foot off the gas in the third. They only get accused of stopping playing when the opposition comes back, which rarely happens because most playoff goalies can make a save
 

leafman101

Well-known member
The Leafs D is still garbage. Especially without Muzzin. Barrie and Ceci are not much of an upgrade on Hainsey/Zaitsev. You want to get to a point where you have a team that is both dominant offensively and defensively. That is the ultimate goal.

Andersen has been the biggest problem, but there is still work to do on the roster.
 

leafman101

Well-known member
But you need to get better, not worse. Bozy and Kessel have won cups. Naz is the #2 center on arguably the best team in the league. Gardiner is going to round 2. JVR is currently playing in exhibition for his first round bye team. Reimer just eliminated the rangers.

The problem with this this team was never that its best players were losers.
 

zeke

Well-known member
The D isn't near garbage, though.

the team you just said might be the best team in the league has this D:

Makar
Girard
Johnson
Graves
Cole
Zadorov
 
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