Wayward DP
Well-known member
Both teams played last night.
Holtby vs McElhinney
Go Buds
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Holtby vs McElhinney
Go Buds
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
GDT - Leafs @ Caps, HNIC, Nov 25
- Thread starter Wayward DP
- Start date
leaffan2005
Well-known member
Love the mentality and composure he brings and the credibility he has brought to the franchise. But tactically, I am starting to have serious doubts about Babcock. Just too many head scratching lineup decisions, especially this year when teams are starting to bear down and scheme for our team.
He has to step up big time. Regardless of our record, he's not getting the best out of our talent thus far in the year.
He has to step up big time. Regardless of our record, he's not getting the best out of our talent thus far in the year.
mbow30
Spudmeister Supreme
This sounds like GLG with Quinn.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
Hey I'm a fan of the guy.
But I don't subscribe to the "Babcock can do no wrong" mantra that many Leaf fans have deployed. Many here have mentioned the questionable decisions he has made thus far this year, including his never ending love for Matt Martin and playing Tyler Bozak in spite of him being an absolute tire fire all year.
The players deserve blame as well, but how many weeks have we gone now with the team starting slow out of the gate? Is that not one of the responsibilities of the coach? I get it's a young team but it's concerning that they look the way they do night in night out, and the head coach hasn't received a lick of blame for any of it.
But I don't subscribe to the "Babcock can do no wrong" mantra that many Leaf fans have deployed. Many here have mentioned the questionable decisions he has made thus far this year, including his never ending love for Matt Martin and playing Tyler Bozak in spite of him being an absolute tire fire all year.
The players deserve blame as well, but how many weeks have we gone now with the team starting slow out of the gate? Is that not one of the responsibilities of the coach? I get it's a young team but it's concerning that they look the way they do night in night out, and the head coach hasn't received a lick of blame for any of it.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
It's not so much that I think we need a new coach.
It's that Babcock deserves some blame for the team playing like crap ever since the first two weeks in October. The team has been playing Carlyle-type hockey and if not for Freddy, we could easily have gone 1-7-1 instead of the very fortunate 7-1-1 run we have been on. And it just seems that the team gets outworked every single night, which is not in keeping with what these guys showed last year.
Like I said, whatever buttons he is pushing isn't working and he needs to step up and find a way to get more out of this group. I don't buy the whole "well this is a young team and they make mistakes" nonsense. This is one of the most talented teams in the Eastern conference and he has a lot to work with.
Bleedsblue&white
Well-known member
I think one of the problems fans are having is Babcock and co. might still be in learn-mode...they might think the team is a couple years away from the real thing, so he may do things that are long-view...and of course, he can also be wrong now and again.
Bleedsblue&white
Well-known member
I even think some of the line-up decisions are trade-based, even if those trades are months away.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
What does playing Tyler Bozak, Roman Polak, Dominic Moore, and Matt Martin have to do with having a "long-view"?
leaffan2005
Well-known member
If that's the case we are in more trouble than I even believe. None of these guys really have any legitimate value. Like playing worse players just to get an extra 3rd or 4th round pick at the deadline is justified at the expense of winning?
I really hope that's not the mentality with this group.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
+1
It's one thing to complain about getting completely outplayed against Carolina...that was ****ing ugly. But a bunch of games over the last few weeks where we've severely out chanced the opposition, I see people complaining about about us getting outplayed (because we didn't dominate in all areas of the game or something...I don't ****ing know) and now Babcock is in question? We're still one of the youngest teams in the league, comfortably in the top 10 in the standings, with the analytics saying that we absolutely deserve to be there. We've seen other teams with comparable groups of young talent struggle over the last couple of years and here we are a legitimate threat in the East with the entire core 20-26 years old.
In the 4 games before the Carolina game (Panthers, Yotes, Habs, Devils) we out chanced our opposition in all 4 games (104-72) and shit stomped in high danger chances (48-21). That's about as dominant as you can ask a team to be. Some people's eye tests are way the **** out of calibration. Walking out of that 4 game set with 5 out of 8 points is unlucky...not the opposite, which I've seen suggested on here.
Yeah, it's frustrating watching them sleepwalk the first 5-10 minutes of the 1st every night and yeah that's something that needs to be addressed but on the whole, we've been very good this year. This is what a 105+ point team looks like in today's parity driven NHL. The improvements we want to see are what will take us from being very good, to elite. The level of despair in some of the post I've seen over the last 2 weeks is a bit silly.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Name 1 team in the NHL that Tyler Bozak should be a health scratch on.
Keep in mind that I've been one of the most vocal critics of his on here over the years....but again we're working our way into delusional territory here.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
You are going to actually imply that we outplayed the Yotes, Devils and Panthers in those games? We may have had a good 10-15 minute stretch the in the 3rd period of those games, but nobody with any sense of objectivity is going to imply that we were the better team in those games. Putting the Habs game in there also further skews these numbers. They are a train wreck and were the only team we really deserved to beat in recent weeks.
leaffan2005
Well-known member
He's terrible.
He may be a 3rd or 4th line centre for some bad teams out there but I don't want that anchor continuing to get ice time and play with talented players night in night out, when other younger guys get so quickly disciplined for their poor play. At this point, what does he bring to the team? You can get his faceoffs from other players who aren't complete sieves in their own end.
Artnes
Well-known member
I laugh at the notion a coach is responsible to get the players motivated to do what their paid to do
If a team gets out played because of going up against a better system that's on the coaching staff. If they get out played because the they decide they don't want to push themselves a little harder that night then that's on them
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If a team gets out played because of going up against a better system that's on the coaching staff. If they get out played because the they decide they don't want to push themselves a little harder that night then that's on them
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MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I'm not implying it. I'm flat out saying it. If I had to guess, I'd say that you're putting way too much value on opposition teams controlling the puck around the outside of our defensive zone and our inability to do that for extended stretches. Because when it comes to the important battle within the game, controlling the puck in the actual danger areas where goals are scored from, we wiped out the Panthers and Yotes. It wasn't close and both teams were only close for the reason you're accusing the Leafs of relying on (which is truly hilarious considering how bad Freddy was until a few weeks ago)...goaltending. Raanta and Luongo were lights out against us. That's the NHL though, sometimes your goalie just does that (which if you remember, is exactly what I was saying when Freddy was struggling...sometimes a goalie just covers up enough mistakes to be the difference in a game)
The heat maps and shot charts aren't lying. We own the high danger areas against our opposition on most nights. This is why we're pacing at 105+ points on the season. You're just putting value in the wrong things imo.
If we weren't the better team, why did we have way more scoring chances in high danger areas? What exactly does the better team look like if it's not the guys taking triple the amount of shot attempts from the highest percentage scoring areas of the ice?
Again, I think your eye test is badly, badly out of calibration. The first 2 periods of that Habs game was some of the most even hockey we've played over the last 2 weeks. The habs inability to finish good chances was the story in that game (before their collapse after we scored a couple...)
leaffan2005
Well-known member
I think the heat charts are skewed towards the team dominating 10-15 minute stretches after already playing 45 minutes of bad hockey. That has been the usual pattern in our games. Hard to keep playing 15 minutes of good hockey a night and be successful.
And I do put value in pick possession and zone time. It tires out your team and makes it much more likely that the opposing team gets a good scoring chance and/or draws a penalty. That's fair game for me with regards to evaluating team performance. Once Anderson stops playing at a .950 rate like he has over the past few weeks, we will see more people pay attention to this kind of excessive defensive zone time.
And I think you are off base with re: to the Habs game. The first period was even but we dominated the rest of the way.
