Sal_Butera
Well-known member
GSAx and WAR are the ultimate measure of goalie performance - Price was hands down the best G of his generation, and he still has the best sv % of any goalie with 25GP+ since 2014 playoffs
Habs Season Thread: 2024-25 Regular Season
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GSAx and WAR are the ultimate measure of goalie performance - Price was hands down the best G of his generation, and he still has the best sv % of any goalie with 25GP+ since 2014 playoffs
GGpX
Well-known member
In the playoffs, with the odd exception here and there like every goalie, he's been excellent and almost irreproachable.
But, it's hard to deny that there are seasons where he flamed out. I don't think it's unfair to point that out.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
There is no denying his HOF credentials but he didn’t have the aura or the legendary exploits that the legends in the rafters did before him. He truly had a stretch of 3-4 years where he was dominant, while the rest of his career was flashes of brilliance with bouts of inconsistency.
Sal_Butera
Well-known member
St Patrick would’ve lost 4-straight and 5-in-6 seasons to Bruins including a guaranteed blue line slap shot goal to Neely - got lucky because Sabres pulled off major upset over Bruins in 93. Same thing in 86 w Oilers who chased him before finishing games during regular season.
All anyone needs to know about Price, is 2015-16 season, Price's last game vs NYR in late November, a win for him to go 10-2, .934, and the team was 17-4-2, first overall. From that point forward, Price did not play again, the team was dead last in the league from that point forward, behind teams like Toronto who were actively tanking.
Price had no Gainey, Robinson, Carbonneau, Chelios leadership or Naslund 100-pts, Richer 2x 50G, Bellows 40G, or Damphousse 80pts C scorer ever on his team
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GGpX
Well-known member
That doesn't address anything from the bolded text, btw.
As mentioned, Price was the best goalie in the world for a two year stretch and was the actual best player in the world for at least one year. Had he not gotten his knee fucked up by Kreider, who knows what would have happened afterwards. Maybe we aren't still at 24 Cups.
He's an absolute, no doubt about it HHOFer. He's also, at the very worst, the fourth best goalie in the history of this franchise.
CH1
The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Halak! + Kopitar! was the move!!!
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
This is a bit of a misnomer. There were wild inconsistencies, he just had some ridiculous good years to inflate some pretty bad years.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
Strange, he only finished top 3 in GSAA twice in his career.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
From 2013-2017 he was awesome, and he missed almost a whole season during that period.
GGpX
Well-known member
That's also why I don't ever hold the lack of team success against star players. This isn't basketball where a LeBron James player can single-handedly win games. The best players in hockey history never won championships alone. The closest thing I ever saw were Dominik Hasek & Jean-Sebastien Giguère.
Price never won a Cup, but as mentioned, if he had actually been on a team that was actually good? I'm all but certain he would have.
If Price & Vasilevsky switch teams in the 2021 finals, does the result change? Nope, but Vasi has his Cups & Conn Smythe because he was fortunate enough to be drafted at the right place & right time.
GGpX
Well-known member
Another thing to add to Price:
He plays one of the most difficult and most demanding positions in all of sports: The franchise, starting goaltender for the Montreal Canadiens. Like being the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys, the star of the LA Lakers, he was under constant scrutiny, always under the headlights, always blamed for team failiures, etc.
There's a lot of goalies that would have folded here. You need to have a special type of makeup to succeed here and he played until his body couldn't anymore. Whatever some might think about him, especially a certain banned poster who irrationally hates Price & "those people", Price deserves respect for what he's done.
He plays one of the most difficult and most demanding positions in all of sports: The franchise, starting goaltender for the Montreal Canadiens. Like being the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys, the star of the LA Lakers, he was under constant scrutiny, always under the headlights, always blamed for team failiures, etc.
There's a lot of goalies that would have folded here. You need to have a special type of makeup to succeed here and he played until his body couldn't anymore. Whatever some might think about him, especially a certain banned poster who irrationally hates Price & "those people", Price deserves respect for what he's done.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Price gets all the respect he deserves. This isn't a matter of if he's deserving of a number retirement. This is a matter of whether he's deserving of such for the Montreal Canadiens.
There's many good players like Price that were left off because let's face it, there have been better.
Could it happen? Sure. Won't be anytime soon.
There's many good players like Price that were left off because let's face it, there have been better.
Could it happen? Sure. Won't be anytime soon.
Bingo , the only issue is the lunacy contract he was given
RedLight
Well-known member
The problem with the cup argument is that it's a 32 team salary capped league. The odds are stacked against any team to win. Being able to sustain a high level of success over a long period is nearly impossible. Most players aren't going to win a lot of cups if any. Montreal is also at a clear disadvantage being in Canada and having a fan base that can consume players. Taking this fact and assuming close parity, this leaves less that 3.125% odds of the Habs winning the cup any year.
Realistically, this team or any team only going to win a tiny fraction of the cups Montreal did back then. It's therefore not a satisfactory metric to judge number retirement from.
It also doesn't seem right when the best player of 30 years doesn't deserve the teams highest honour because of the accomplishments of players playing 40-60+ years ago under much different circumstances. Nostalgia is great for you old farts but common sense says he should be up there.
He was dominate during his peak and carried this team well above their means for more than a decade. He's been our best and only elite player since Roy.
Realistically, this team or any team only going to win a tiny fraction of the cups Montreal did back then. It's therefore not a satisfactory metric to judge number retirement from.
It also doesn't seem right when the best player of 30 years doesn't deserve the teams highest honour because of the accomplishments of players playing 40-60+ years ago under much different circumstances. Nostalgia is great for you old farts but common sense says he should be up there.
He was dominate during his peak and carried this team well above their means for more than a decade. He's been our best and only elite player since Roy.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Roy overcame mediocre teams. He won in Montreal with mediocre. He won with Colorado with a stacked team. He did both.
Unfortunately for Price, he did neither. If the Habs continue to flounder he may eventually get his number retired but it will not be anytime soon. If it is then the exceptional history is tarnished. There are plenty of good players WITH cups that didn't get their number retired.
Unfortunately for Price, he did neither. If the Habs continue to flounder he may eventually get his number retired but it will not be anytime soon. If it is then the exceptional history is tarnished. There are plenty of good players WITH cups that didn't get their number retired.
GGpX
Well-known member
Really, when was that?
In 1986 with a team that had the 7th best record in the league, and had 4 future HHoFers (excluding Roy) on the roster?
Or in 1993, when they had the 6th best record in the league? And while I'll grant you that there wasn't any super elite talent outside of Roy, it was a balanced team that produced very well.
And in neither season did Roy carry the team on his back and they only made it that high in the rankings because he was the only reason they won. He had two pretty good years and got some Vezina votes, but he wasn't the only reason he made it that far.
Roy almost never had to overcome mediocrity until the end of his tenure with the Habs.
When Roy was on actual mediocre teams:
1990-1991 - While the Habs finished 6th in the league, they were 11 points behind the 5th best team in the league. Lost in the second round.
1993-1994 - 9th in the league in points, first round exit.
1994-1995 - 16th in the league in points, missed the playoffs.
1995-1996 - Incomplete, traded.
Otherwise, the Habs finished with the 7th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 6th (1990-1991), 5th, 6th, 9th (1993-1994), 16th (1994-1995) record when Roy was here.
When he was in Colorado, his teams finished with the (excluding 1995-1996, they won) 1st (Western Conference exit), 7th (1st round exit), 4th (Western Conference exit), 9th (Western Conference exit), 1st (Champions), 4th (Western Conference exit), 6th (1st round exit) best records in each full year Roy was there. Only one mediocre team his entire time in Colorado.
So in four seasons being on mediocre teams, he's only gotten to the second round once when in Montreal and made it to the Western Conference finals on his worst team in Colorado, albeit a team that had Sakic & Forsberg miss a combined 53 games.
Roy never overcame mediocre teams and led them to victory.