• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

Habs Season Thread: 2024-25 Regular Season

GGpX said:
So, what you're saying is, a team that wasn't expecting to do much, had a bunch of rookies that played well enough to contribute, had 4 other future HHoFers on it, had 3 players on it that finished in the top-30 in scoring, wasn't mediocre?

Sounds like a decent team to me. But shrug.
Click to expand...
In 86 they finished 7th overall in a 21 team league with a record of 40-33-7. The bottom third of the league finished with records of under .500 so the Habs were in the middle of the pack of teams with winning records. That is the epitome of mediocre. And the only reason they won, aside from the otherworldly goaltending of Roy, who at that time NOBODY was predicting a Hall of Fame career (in fact, Roy didn't even get the lion's share of starts for about another 3 or 4 years) was because 5 of the 6 teams that finished ahead of them got eliminated before the Habs would have had to play them and there was no re-seeding after each round. So, as it turned out, the Habs had home ice through the first 3 rounds and in the final played a Calgary team that finished only 2 points ahead of them in the standings. Three out of four first place teams got bounced in the first round.

The 86 Habs, with or without Roy, weren't going to beat the Oilers or Flyers, but they never had to play them. They are only a decent team in retrospect because of how things turned out. But as someone who was living in Montreal at the time and who attended a lot of games that season, I can tell you for a fact that what made victory so sweet was the fact that it was so unexpected and came out of the blue. After Game #80 most fans were pissed off (the Habs lost 8 of their last 11 games in the regular season, including a 7 game losing streak) and we had zero expectations other than that we'd probably get past Boston and then get embarrassed by the Nordiques in Round 2. As it turned out, We swept Boston (as usual) Quebec was eliminated and we nearly got embarrassed by Hartford in Round 2 instead. Then instead of having to play Philly or the Isles in the Conference Finals we got a mediocre Rangers team.

The 86 Habs were the biggest fluke champions in modern NHL history.
 
RedLight said:
So in coming up with a reply, I saw where my perception differs and am willing to abandon my arguments. I've been approaching this with a what about the fanbase born after the golden era and the players we had to cheer for.

I see it's not about the players though, it's about the team. I've always seen the countless ceremonies as celebration of the individual players, while failing to see it for what is was: a celebration of the team.

Looking at it from that perception, yes the standard should always stay high.
Click to expand...
That high standard, difficult though it may be to reach, is really all this franchise has left. If they let it fall by the wayside then the Habs become just another franchise and their tradition of excellence simply becomes something they use to sell jerseys (which, let's face it, they already try to do)

In a way, it's a tad unfair to Price, who on any other team would get his jersey number retired the second he hung up his skates. But that's precisely what makes the Habs different from every other team. Nothing is automatic in Montreal because there is a criteria for this honor that goes beyond the player himself and his personal performance. It's about how that performance was relevant to the performance of the team as a whole. If the player's performance was exemplary but did not result in the ultimate victory at least once, then it failed to move the one and only needle that really matters.

Like you said, jersey retirements are, for the Habs at least, as much about the team as the individual player. Team performance is taken into context in a way that doesn't happen with other teams. If your number gets retired in Winnipeg, it's all about you because that franchise has never won jack squat in its history. But if you have a dozen banners of retired numbers hanging in the rafters and they all have Cups you simply can't ignore that fact when the next candidate comes along because that also wouldn't be fair. Not fair to Price, who would stick out like a sore thumb among all those other players who actually won Cups, and not fair to those other players because putting a non-Cup winner in the rafters, regardless of how great his personal career may have been, nonetheless cheapens the honor for everyone else and it automatically lowers the standard. Once the standard has been broken, the door is wide open to turning the honor into a popularity contest and marketing opportunity. Soon enough, you'll have people clamoring to retire a guy's number because, even though he might never make the Hall of Fame and won no Cups, he was a fan favorite who sold lots of jerseys. Or this kid looked like he might have a great career but he was killed in a car accident halfway through his rookie year so let's retire his number too.

Standards as high as what the Habs have for jersey retirements are difficult to reach but can be so easily broken forever if not adhered to. It's the slipperiest of slippery slopes.

They could erect a statue of Price in the plaza outside the Bell Centre next to the ones of Lafleur, Beliveau and Richard. I'm sure that every player with a statue probably also has Cups but the statues are a newer thing and there is no set criteria that I know of regarding who can or can't get one. So sure, by all means, get a statue erected for Price. But while you might take 31 out of circulation for a few years there's no case justifying its permanent retirement.
 
Habsy said:
Roy overcame mediocre teams. He won in Montreal with mediocre. He won with Colorado with a stacked team. He did both.

Unfortunately for Price, he did neither. If the Habs continue to flounder he may eventually get his number retired but it will not be anytime soon. If it is then the exceptional history is tarnished. There are plenty of good players WITH cups that didn't get their number retired.
Click to expand...
Not just "good" players, great players. Steve Shutt instantly leaps to mind. Hall of Famer, multiple Cups, a 60 goal season but Caufield is wearing his number 22 today. Jacques Lemaire, on any other team, probably gets his number retired as well. And, going a bit further back, Jacques Laperriere (HHOF, Calder and Norris winner, 6X Cup champion, 2X first team all star, 2X second team all star) would be a no-brainer for jersey retirement on pretty much any other team in the NHL. He is so underrated and overlooked it's insane.
 
GGpX said:
(See above)
Click to expand...
The Habs have one of those (although I don't think it has a lofty name like "ring of honor" or perhaps any name at all) The problem is that the players on the "ring" are noted on the walls above the last row of the upper deck, where few people can see and where the TV cameras never show. You have to go to the upper deck to see them and that's where you find the Naslund's, Richer's, Chelios' and Bobby Smith's.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
In 86 they finished 7th overall in a 21 team league with a record of 40-33-7. The bottom third of the league finished with records of under .500 so the Habs were in the middle of the pack of teams with winning records. That is the epitome of mediocre. And the only reason they won, aside from the otherworldly goaltending of Roy, who at that time NOBODY was predicting a Hall of Fame career (in fact, Roy didn't even get the lion's share of starts for about another 3 or 4 years) was because 5 of the 6 teams that finished ahead of them got eliminated before the Habs would have had to play them and there was no re-seeding after each round. So, as it turned out, the Habs had home ice through the first 3 rounds and in the final played a Calgary team that finished only 2 points ahead of them in the standings. Three out of four first place teams got bounced in the first round.

The 86 Habs, with or without Roy, weren't going to beat the Oilers or Flyers, but they never had to play them. They are only a decent team in retrospect because of how things turned out. But as someone who was living in Montreal at the time and who attended a lot of games that season, I can tell you for a fact that what made victory so sweet was the fact that it was so unexpected and came out of the blue. After Game #80 most fans were pissed off (the Habs lost 8 of their last 11 games in the regular season, including a 7 game losing streak) and we had zero expectations other than that we'd probably get past Boston and then get embarrassed by the Nordiques in Round 2. As it turned out, We swept Boston (as usual) Quebec was eliminated and we nearly got embarrassed by Hartford in Round 2 instead. Then instead of having to play Philly or the Isles in the Conference Finals we got a mediocre Rangers team.

The 86 Habs were the biggest fluke champions in modern NHL history.
Click to expand...

That was not a fluke at all

That team was great defensively and Roy went ape shit

If powerhouses got eliminated thats not the Habs issue

They were competitive for many years after before winning another cup

The habs finals 2 years ago was pure fluke

That team was destined to miss the playoffs 5 straight years with the pandemic gift
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CH1
according to the Wehave gang only the top 2 teams should make the playoffs...that way, there would be no "flukes"
 
CH1 said:
according to the Wehave gang only the top 2 teams should make the playoffs...that way, there would be no "flukes"
Click to expand...
The 87 Habs were better than the 86 Habs but had to play Quebec and Philly, not Hartford and the Rangers. The 89 team was elite but in the finals faced the only team in the league with a better record. That was just bad luck because they'd have beaten any other team. Still, they had a 2 games to 1 series lead with games 4 and 6 at the Forum and managed to fuck it up somehow.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Not just "good" players, great players. Steve Shutt instantly leaps to mind. Hall of Famer, multiple Cups, a 60 goal season but Caufield is wearing his number 22 today. Jacques Lemaire, on any other team, probably gets his number retired as well. And, going a bit further back, Jacques Laperriere (HHOF, Calder and Norris winner, 6X Cup champion, 2X first team all star, 2X second team all star) would be a no-brainer for jersey retirement on pretty much any other team in the NHL. He is so underrated and overlooked it's insane.
Click to expand...

I always feel Bill Durnan gets overlooked. 6 Vezina, 2 Cups, 6 first all star team in 7 years, 2 cups, 2 top 3 Hart nominations, in 7 years, captain of the Habs and last actual goalie captain in the league (before Luongo, but Luongo couldn't talk to the refs because of the Durnan rule).
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Not just "good" players, great players. Steve Shutt instantly leaps to mind. Hall of Famer, multiple Cups, a 60 goal season but Caufield is wearing his number 22 today. Jacques Lemaire, on any other team, probably gets his number retired as well. And, going a bit further back, Jacques Laperriere (HHOF, Calder and Norris winner, 6X Cup champion, 2X first team all star, 2X second team all star) would be a no-brainer for jersey retirement on pretty much any other team in the NHL. He is so underrated and overlooked it's insane.
Click to expand...
Jacques Laperriere jersey is NOT retirement worthy.. he shouldn't of won the Calder over John Ferguson.. he had two good years (calder/norris) and then slipped down the depth charts.. he can't skate and was one trick pony.. two good years and then.. pfft..
 
GrandWazoo said:
I always feel Bill Durnan gets overlooked. 6 Vezina, 2 Cups, 6 first all star team in 7 years, 2 cups, 2 top 3 Hart nominations, in 7 years, captain of the Habs and last actual goalie captain in the league (before Luongo, but Luongo couldn't talk to the refs because of the Durnan rule).
Click to expand...
What about George Vezina?
 
Stinky said:
It would be really fun to have some Insight and read some articles about this year’s team.
Click to expand...
Call me crazy but I think they’re going to come close to a playoff spot, likely finishing about 10 through 12 overall. Not good enough for a good draft pick nor good enough To make the playoffs.
 
Stinky said:
Call me crazy but I think they’re going to come close to a playoff spot, likely finishing about 10 through 12 overall. Not good enough for a good draft pick nor good enough To make the playoffs.
Click to expand...
That would be yet another catastrophic failure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top