Habs Season Thread: 2024-25 Regular Season
- Thread starter Habsy
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GGpX
Well-known member
He better start learning to move his feet and keep his head up, then.
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
Who’s the last 1st overall pick to have played in the AHL?
GGpX
Well-known member
They don't play in the AHL because most first overall picks are from the CHL/USHL and the AHL isn't an option for them. You have Owen Powers who chose to return to the NCAA and before him, Erik Johnson. Ovechkin played an extra year in Russia due to the lockout, otherwise he would have been in the NHL in the 2004-2005 season. Besides that, you have Ed Jovanovski & Bryan Berard who went back to Junior for a season. Every other first overall pick in the last 30 years went straight to the NHL.
However, there have been a lot more third overall picks (which is where we took Galchenyuk & Kotkaniemi) who were sent back to an inferior level: Mason McTavish, Miro Heiskanen, Pierre-Luc Debois, Dylan Strome, Leon Draisaitl, Jonathan Drouin, Jonathan Huberdeau, Erik Gudbranson, Kyle Turris, Jack Johnson, Cam Barker, Alexandr Svitov, Brad Stuart, Olli Jokinen, Jean-Pierre Dumont.
The problem with Slafkovsky is he should have been in the AHL or even Europe last year. Now we can't send him back to Europe, that ship has sailed. We can still send him to the AHL because that ship's about to sail after this season.
It was a weak draft by every account and draft analysts thought Slaf would be ranked around 5th or 6th if he was eligible in the 2023 draft. Keeping someone in the NHL when they aren't ready just because close to 90% of the other first overall picks started in the NHL is terrible reasoning.
However, there have been a lot more third overall picks (which is where we took Galchenyuk & Kotkaniemi) who were sent back to an inferior level: Mason McTavish, Miro Heiskanen, Pierre-Luc Debois, Dylan Strome, Leon Draisaitl, Jonathan Drouin, Jonathan Huberdeau, Erik Gudbranson, Kyle Turris, Jack Johnson, Cam Barker, Alexandr Svitov, Brad Stuart, Olli Jokinen, Jean-Pierre Dumont.
The problem with Slafkovsky is he should have been in the AHL or even Europe last year. Now we can't send him back to Europe, that ship has sailed. We can still send him to the AHL because that ship's about to sail after this season.
It was a weak draft by every account and draft analysts thought Slaf would be ranked around 5th or 6th if he was eligible in the 2023 draft. Keeping someone in the NHL when they aren't ready just because close to 90% of the other first overall picks started in the NHL is terrible reasoning.
CH1
The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
I think this admin has certain hubris about their proficiency in development.
GGpX
Well-known member
Here's the thing. Why are players, who are clearly not ready to be in the NHL, in the NHL simply because of where they were drafted? From the same draft, why did New Jersey & Columbus think it was better to have Nemec & Jiricek in the AHL for a complete season over having them play in the NHL? Why did Detroit do the same with Seider a few years ago? Theoretically: Had the positions been reversed and New Jersey had the first overall pick and they had taken Nemec, would the better move have been to play him in the NHL or the AHL? If the answer is the NHL, then it's admitting that the draft position is more important than doing what's best for the player.
Why not just take all your first rounders (shit, why stop there?), sign 'em to ELCs and stick them in the lineup immediately? The logic is that they'll learn more being around pro players and practicing with them.
I'm not claiming to be the know-it-all in development. Don't ask me the best way to develop players, I'm not competent.
What I am competent in, however, is showing clear examples where rushing players in the league has ruined them. Nail Yakupov had an interview a few weeks ago that basically detailed how Darren Eakins would yell at him, but never actually show him how to fix what he was doing.
In our own backyards, Galchenyuk & Kotkaniemi had no business being in the NHL at 18. Galchenyuk played in a best-on-best tournament at the WJC, starting as the #1 center in game one, and by the final game he was a third line winger. But this management (ownership, if we're being honest) thought it was a good idea to play him in the NHL despite not being able to stand out against players of his own age and despite playing only a handful of games the previous year due to a knee injury.
Why not just take all your first rounders (shit, why stop there?), sign 'em to ELCs and stick them in the lineup immediately? The logic is that they'll learn more being around pro players and practicing with them.
I'm not claiming to be the know-it-all in development. Don't ask me the best way to develop players, I'm not competent.
What I am competent in, however, is showing clear examples where rushing players in the league has ruined them. Nail Yakupov had an interview a few weeks ago that basically detailed how Darren Eakins would yell at him, but never actually show him how to fix what he was doing.
In our own backyards, Galchenyuk & Kotkaniemi had no business being in the NHL at 18. Galchenyuk played in a best-on-best tournament at the WJC, starting as the #1 center in game one, and by the final game he was a third line winger. But this management (ownership, if we're being honest) thought it was a good idea to play him in the NHL despite not being able to stand out against players of his own age and despite playing only a handful of games the previous year due to a knee injury.
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This is a good topic
Number 1 for me is the player must be able to handle the physical and mental grind of the NHL as an 18-19 year old
High skill is great but if your built like Hutson you dont have the strength to survive the season
Rushing players is a mixed debate and your right it usually backfires
Jack Hughes was rushed and wasnt ready to play and struggled for 2 years
He could of been a bust with his injuries but now is a star
KK was rushed but played well last year and now is about what he was going to be with some more upside
Many other factors involved that will vary from team to team
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
It was an honest question, not the start of an argument. I started thinking about it and couldn’t think of any and didn’t feel like going through 50 years of draft picks so I was curious if someone knew from the top of their head.
And yes, I can think of plenty of 2nd and 3rd overall, but no 1st for some reasons. You’d think there would be a few exceptions.
well would you trust St Louis or the spawn of Houle...
GGpX
Well-known member
Teams have to wrestle with it a little with certain players. There aren't many exceptions because the rules aren't made to send players to the AHL unless they're from Europe.
A player taken in the CHL, unless he's an over-ager, isn't eligible to play in the AHL for two years. Seattle, somehow, got an exemption for Shane Wright this year. He's the first player to ever receive an exemption. A player drafted in the USHL, if given the option, would choose college over the AHL, and frankly I wouldn't blame them.
I think it would greatly benefit everyone minus the CHL to change the rules. The rules are made this way so that the CHL can keep their start players for an extra year or two, but sometimes you have players who are stuck. If you look at a player like Guillaume Latendresse: He was done with Junior, but wasn't ready to play in the NHL because the AHL wasn't an option for him. So they kept him in the NHL, much to his detriment. To this day, I believe a year or more in the AHL would have done marvels for Latendresse.
But draft position aside, one of the main reasons why I think so many high draft picks are shoved into the lineup early? Teams that are good sell winning, teams that suck sell hope. What better way to sell hope than to take the high picks and put them on a pedestal and show them to the world, Soon we'll be good with him! as the way to sell hope.
A player taken in the CHL, unless he's an over-ager, isn't eligible to play in the AHL for two years. Seattle, somehow, got an exemption for Shane Wright this year. He's the first player to ever receive an exemption. A player drafted in the USHL, if given the option, would choose college over the AHL, and frankly I wouldn't blame them.
I think it would greatly benefit everyone minus the CHL to change the rules. The rules are made this way so that the CHL can keep their start players for an extra year or two, but sometimes you have players who are stuck. If you look at a player like Guillaume Latendresse: He was done with Junior, but wasn't ready to play in the NHL because the AHL wasn't an option for him. So they kept him in the NHL, much to his detriment. To this day, I believe a year or more in the AHL would have done marvels for Latendresse.
But draft position aside, one of the main reasons why I think so many high draft picks are shoved into the lineup early? Teams that are good sell winning, teams that suck sell hope. What better way to sell hope than to take the high picks and put them on a pedestal and show them to the world, Soon we'll be good with him! as the way to sell hope.
GGpX
Well-known member
I still don't know if St. Louis's a good coach or not. Coaching's easy when you make the environment fun and semi-relaxed and winning's not really the focus.
When the time comes, whenever that'll be, will he be able to meaningfully affect the game through preparation, tactics & in-game changes? If he can, great. If he can't, sorry Marty, we gotta find someone else.
Habsy
Not playing around anymore.
Why?
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
Except that teams like the Habs, which are a license to print money, don't actually need to "sell" anything. People buy the product whether it's good or terrible. If any franchise can afford to be patient and not pay for it financially it's this one. Fans and media are famously impatient in Montreal but even pissed off fans refuse to stop buying tickets so management has no excuse to rush anyone into the lineup.
As Toe Blake said once you start listening to the fans you wind up sitting in the stands with them. Fuck the fans.
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
In today's NHL, a good coach is someone for whom the players want to play. Players like playing for Marty to the point where we're almost able to get good free agents to consider playing here. A bad NHL coach is someone like Babcock, who now can't get work. Players played for him because they had to, not because they wanted to, and they had little enthusiasm and left as soon as they could. We've had too many coaches like him over the last 40 years.
Fans need to see some improvement this year and have some hope for Laval developing the next wave
Hugo hasnt rushed anything because this is a tear down not a tweak
Its the only game in town so discretionary spending has to go somewhere
I think fans wanted to see some direction not the dreaded middle shit for a decade with Nero
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
Agreed but there has always been a big gap between what fans want to see and what they're still willing to pay to see. Good or bad they never stop showing up.
Habs will never have the the terrible attendance of some USA cities if they are a shit team
If this crap continues for a few more years you will have some drop in attendance and less fans filling up bars and restaurants downtown
Not sure how media outlets and TV revenue get affected with contracts
GrandWazoo
Well-known member
Habs fans patience is limited. After one or two more years of finishing in the basement (a very likely scenario), knives will be out.