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No Excuses No Limits! The mother fucking goddamn season thread

MindzEye said:
Paying 11 million dollars for a 28G 63PT pace over his last 106 games....."talking shit for no reason"
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He's in the last year of a 7 year deal at age 34 and he's still putting up points and is one of the best on the team under your beloved xg metrics.

Give it a rest.
 
leafman101 said:
Yeah, we always expected this in the last couple years. the problem is he wasn't worth $11 in the first 4-5 years.
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And this can be argued ad nauseum, without changing the fact that whatever his true value was (if we won't accept what the market actually valued him at, and I don't know why we would do that), whether it was a couple mill less, wouldn't have changed our fortunes.

We were never $2M short in filling out the roster. We're currently blowing more than that on 4th line players. Yet we've added good players every year. His salary didn't affect anything, other than giving haters a talking point to go after him all these years.
 
His salary was a top 5 salary in the league most of the contract. of course it affected the team.

And the team failed miserably. If we could go back in time of course you choose to do something different. Its not even a question at this point.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
And this can be argued ad nauseum, without changing the fact that whatever his true value was (if we won't accept what the market actually valued him at, and I don't know why we would do that), whether it was a couple mill less, wouldn't have changed our fortunes.
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Well when anyone talks about value or worth around here it's almost always means in comparison to other ways you could spend $11 million. Sure the market "valued" him at $11+ million, but the market hands out dumb contracts all the time.

Winning teams do a good job on deciding whether a player is worth X, or whether you that money could be better spent elsewhere. They don't just shrug their shoulders and say "well, market is willing to pay him that, so he must be worth it."
 
WellPlayed said:
Well when anyone talks about value or worth around here it's almost always means in comparison to other ways you could spend $11 million. Sure the market "valued" him at $11+ million, but the market hands out dumb contracts all the time.
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It wasn't dumb. It was substantially less than other offers he received, and he promptly went out and scored almost 50 goals in his first year.

And if you're looking back and wanting to reallocate cap, I guarantee you'll find a lot of garbage players we paid good money to that we should have never brought in, or gotten rid of sooner, than a guy like Tavares who has performed well, even if not to the level of $11M.

The hyper focus on him as the root of all our problems is ludicrous.
 
Since 2018-19 Tavares ranks

Regular season:
Goals: 18th
Points: 25th
xgf%: 77th

Playoffs
Games: 195th
Goals: 76th
Points: 108th
xgf%: 184th

Money paid: 2nd

Like what are we even talking about? We paid a really good regular season player, that stunk in the playoffs like McDavid or Matthews.

And it didn't work. Period.
 
Also its not just "$2 mill". This is from Dubas in Craig Custance's new book:

“The biggest mistake I think I’ve made in my whole time here has been not taking care of the three incumbent contracts (of Matthews, Marner and Nylander before signing Tavares),” Dubas says in the book. “The thing I learned was that once we signed John to the (deal) we did, it lifted the lid on the entire ceiling.”
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It fucked their entire cap.
 
Nobody thought Tavares was a tier above Matthews. Total fiction.

He was a 1C who was signed to be our 2C, not the other way around.

And again, the mistake wasn't in whatever excess he might've been paid, it was in stupid decisions around him like trading Kadri for Kerf/Barrie, letting Hyman go for $5M, and many more.

Plus, Dubas had RFAs to deal with in the big 3, not UFAs. Even if he stupidly chose to wait on extending them, he didn't have to cave to their demands when the time came. In fact, he didn't when it came to Nylander, and got him for cheap. He just wasn't willing to play hardball with Matty and Marner. That's all on him, and he's using the Tavares contract as his scapegoat.

In any event, signing John Tavares was never the reason we didn't win anything.
 
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