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OT: American Politics

FlyGuy said:
You have no idea how people live or feel in America. Clearly, by the head-up-ass predictions on what would happen in the election.

DUR DUR HOW ARENT AMERICANS LIVING BETTER LOOK AT THE NUMBERS DUR DUR DUMB AMERICANS HUR HUR DUR DURRRRR
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What we're saying is to stop slurping up the propaganda, and make at least some attempt to think things through based on facts not feelings.

The numbers used to evaluate how an economy is doing don't care about your fears or your progadanda. Basic math shows that unemployment is at 4% and has been low through Biden's admin post-covid. The GDP is high, stock market keeps setting new all-time highs. And inflation is back down to 2% after being up all around the world for a variety of reasons. The USA led the way for all G1 nations in all of these financial markers. So it is simply factually incorrect to run around pretending that the economy is terrible or that you're in a recession, based on vibes and what a bunch of liars say on social media so frequently that you eventually believe it.

Now that being said, it can also be true that not everyone is doing well. Just because you have a job doesn't mean the pay is great. A lot of people are poor, and live paycheque to paycheque. There is a homeless and a housing crisis. There are people hurting out there, for sure. It's fair to point that out and it's part of the equation, but there were poor people and people hurting under Trump, Bush, Reagan, etc. etc.

In fact, this is what we keep going on about, the shift to give tax cuts to the top 1% has made things much worse for the bottom 10-50% because it doesn't trickle down and no matter how much you give them, they never stop clawing and scraping to get more.

Then there is the middle ground, people screaming about how bad the economy is despite making massive monthly payments for an F-150 that they use to cart groceries back to their house once a week, which itself may be too big and expensive for what they can actually afford, while also eating out all the time and buying a bunch of useless shit while constantly whining the economy is bad because of Biden derpa derpa derpa. Oh wait now it's actually good because Trump derpa derpa.

Economies are extremely complex, and it helps to understand how things are going in other countries and how business cycles are always cyclical. Dumbing everything down is just dumb.
 
axlsalinger said:
What we're saying is to stop slurping up the propaganda, and make at least some attempt to think things through based on facts not feelings.

The numbers used to evaluate how an economy is doing don't care about your fears or your progadanda. Basic math shows that unemployment is at 4% and has been low through Biden's admin post-covid. The GDP is high, stock market keeps setting new all-time highs. And inflation is back down to 2% after being up all around the world for a variety of reasons. The USA led the way for all G1 nations in all of these financial markers. So it is simply factually incorrect to run around pretending that the economy is terrible or that you're in a recession, based on vibes and what a bunch of liars say on social media so frequently that you eventually believe it.

Now that being said, it can also be true that not everyone is doing well. Just because you have a job doesn't mean the pay is great. A lot of people are poor, and live paycheque to paycheque. There is a homeless and a housing crisis. There are people hurting out there, for sure. It's fair to point that out and it's part of the equation, but there were poor people and people hurting under Trump, Bush, Reagan, etc. etc.

In fact, this is what we keep going on about, the shift to give tax cuts to the top 1% has made things much worse for the bottom 10-50% because it doesn't trickle down and no matter how much you give them, they never stop clawing and scraping to get more.

Then there is the middle ground, people screaming about how bad the economy is despite making massive monthly payments for an F-150 that they use to cart groceries back to their house once a week, which itself may be too big and expensive for what they can actually afford, while also eating out all the time and buying a bunch of useless shit while constantly whining the economy is bad because of Biden derpa derpa derpa. Oh wait now it's actually good because Trump derpa derpa.

Economies are extremely complex, and it helps to understand how things are going in other countries and how business cycles are always cyclical. Dumbing everything down is just dumb.
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CPI is at 2.6% YoY after being at 2.4% YoY last month. The lowest core CPI (ie most expenses for people) has gotten is 3.2% (and that doesn't even include food!). On a cumulative basis these numbers are terrible.
 
axlsalinger said:
What we're saying is to stop slurping up the propaganda, and make at least some attempt to think things through based on facts not feelings.

The numbers used to evaluate how an economy is doing don't care about your fears or your progadanda. Basic math shows that unemployment is at 4% and has been low through Biden's admin post-covid. The GDP is high, stock market keeps setting new all-time highs. And inflation is back down to 2% after being up all around the world for a variety of reasons. The USA led the way for all G1 nations in all of these financial markers. So it is simply factually incorrect to run around pretending that the economy is terrible or that you're in a recession, based on vibes and what a bunch of liars say on social media so frequently that you eventually believe it.

Now that being said, it can also be true that not everyone is doing well. Just because you have a job doesn't mean the pay is great. A lot of people are poor, and live paycheque to paycheque. There is a homeless and a housing crisis. There are people hurting out there, for sure. It's fair to point that out and it's part of the equation, but there were poor people and people hurting under Trump, Bush, Reagan, etc. etc.

In fact, this is what we keep going on about, the shift to give tax cuts to the top 1% has made things much worse for the bottom 10-50% because it doesn't trickle down and no matter how much you give them, they never stop clawing and scraping to get more.

Then there is the middle ground, people screaming about how bad the economy is despite making massive monthly payments for an F-150 that they use to cart groceries back to their house once a week, which itself may be too big and expensive for what they can actually afford, while also eating out all the time and buying a bunch of useless shit while constantly whining the economy is bad because of Biden derpa derpa derpa. Oh wait now it's actually good because Trump derpa derpa.

Economies are extremely complex, and it helps to understand how things are going in other countries and how business cycles are always cyclical. Dumbing everything down is just dumb.
Click to expand...
Inflation was extremely high for most of the Biden administration. That was in part due to the printing of money and cheap money that started during the Trump administration and by the closure of everything for COVID which, for better or worse, contributed by causing shortages. That continued into the Biden administration- same kind of policy. Biden then doubled down on it with his big spending/green/infrastructure legislation. It was all a bad idea IMO. But to pretend that inflation was primarily caused by price gouging, and that all is well now, ignores the fact that prices are 20% or more higher and people’s savings are worth 20% or more less because of Biden era policies continuing to print money like it wasn’t an issue is dishonest.

People were economically damaged by that regardless of if we’re in a recession or not - (we are not) and the “feeling” is that the economy is not good because they were better off before all that mess.

And the Fed is directly responsible for inflation which is caused by the increased money supply which people seem to think is limitless.

Neither party seems to care to fix this though because they want to stay in power and keep getting richer and richer off the rest of us. The fact that the democrats are now the party of the wealthy elite is problematic for them. They’re not going to fix it by calling everyone who doesn’t agree with them deplorable or garbage (or worse on this thread).

You don’t have too many conservatives posting here because it’s a left wing echo chamber and instead of discussing y’all start calling names and berating people. Personally I expect most of you are decent people that disagree with me on a lot of thing. I don’t presume I’m right about everything and I know y’all are not either. But I also don’t think the fact that we disagree makes you idiots or evil, but apparently it makes me those things in your minds.
 
cmon3 said:
Inflation was extremely high for most of the Biden administration. That was in part due to the printing of money and cheap money that started during the Trump administration and by the closure of everything for COVID which, for better or worse, contributed by causing shortages. That continued into the Biden administration- same kind of policy. Biden then doubled down on it with his big spending/green/infrastructure legislation. It was all a bad idea IMO. But to pretend that inflation was primarily caused by price gouging, and that all is well now, ignores the fact that prices are 20% or more higher and people’s savings are worth 20% or more less because of Biden era policies continuing to print money like it wasn’t an issue is dishonest.

People were economically damaged by that regardless of if we’re in a recession or not - (we are not) and the “feeling” is that the economy is not good because they were better off before all that mess.

And the Fed is directly responsible for inflation which is caused by the increased money supply which people seem to think is limitless.

Neither party seems to care to fix this though because they want to stay in power and keep getting richer and richer off the rest of us. The fact that the democrats are now the party of the wealthy elite is problematic for them. They’re not going to fix it by calling everyone who doesn’t agree with them deplorable or garbage (or worse on this thread).

You don’t have too many conservatives posting here because it’s a left wing echo chamber and instead of discussing y’all start calling names and berating people. Personally I expect most of you are decent people that disagree with me on a lot of thing. I don’t presume I’m right about everything and I know y’all are not either. But I also don’t think the fact that we disagree makes you idiots or evil, but apparently it makes me those things in your minds.
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Did I ever insult you?
 
FlyGuy said:
CPI is at 2.6% YoY after being at 2.4% YoY last month. The lowest core CPI (ie most expenses for people) has gotten is 3.2% (and that doesn't even include food!). On a cumulative basis these numbers are terrible.
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This is how you generally respond to this type of post.

4INNUYK.gif
 
Large scale infrastructure programs take years to roll out and it’s very doubtful they contributed to the very high inflation post COVID.

The post COVID inflation was caused by supply chain disruptions (the largest supply shock since WW2) and the extraordinary measures needed to stabilize household and business liquidity that numbered in the millions.

What few people ask themselves is what would have happened if those measure hadn’t been put into place. A supply chain shock could have morphed into a debt/liquidity crisis, and we would have had a deflationary/ depression scenario that would make 18 months of 8% inflation look like a garden party.

It was a very shitty situation. The policy response, largely uniform around the world, was the best option.
 
FlyGuy said:
CPI is at 2.6% YoY after being at 2.4% YoY last month. The lowest core CPI (ie most expenses for people) has gotten is 3.2% (and that doesn't even include food!). On a cumulative basis these numbers are terrible.
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Absolutely bring in more data to the convo. Nobody is saying that prices are great or that the economy is perfect (hint: it never is). But you should also be able to see through bullshit like this:

"I’ve never seen a worse period of time...People can’t go out and buy cereal or bacon or eggs or anything else. The people of our country are absolutely dying with what [Biden and Harris have] done. They’ve destroyed the economy.” - Dorito
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I am pretty sure that you can probably buy some cereal if you save up for a few months.

Also the CPI is always going up, I assume you know this and other than a covid spike it's a pretty uniform growth. And no difference between Obama's term and Trump's first.

The bottom line (IMO) is that people have unrealistic expectations on how quickly these things can be turned around, covid was a massive blow to all aspects of the economy and the Biden Administration (IMO) did a helluva job getting things back on track as fast as they did. Again, leading the way for all G1 countries suggests that they did a good (the best?) job, otherwise they wouldn't be leading most economic indicators.

mwB5tcF.png
 
cmon3 said:
Inflation was extremely high for most of the Biden administration. That was in part due to the printing of money and cheap money that started during the Trump administration and by the closure of everything for COVID which, for better or worse, contributed by causing shortages. That continued into the Biden administration- same kind of policy. Biden then doubled down on it with his big spending/green/infrastructure legislation. It was all a bad idea IMO. But to pretend that inflation was primarily caused by price gouging, and that all is well now, ignores the fact that prices are 20% or more higher and people’s savings are worth 20% or more less because of Biden era policies continuing to print money like it wasn’t an issue is dishonest.

People were economically damaged by that regardless of if we’re in a recession or not - (we are not) and the “feeling” is that the economy is not good because they were better off before all that mess.

And the Fed is directly responsible for inflation which is caused by the increased money supply which people seem to think is limitless.

Neither party seems to care to fix this though because they want to stay in power and keep getting richer and richer off the rest of us. The fact that the democrats are now the party of the wealthy elite is problematic for them. They’re not going to fix it by calling everyone who doesn’t agree with them deplorable or garbage (or worse on this thread).

You don’t have too many conservatives posting here because it’s a left wing echo chamber and instead of discussing y’all start calling names and berating people. Personally I expect most of you are decent people that disagree with me on a lot of thing. I don’t presume I’m right about everything and I know y’all are not either. But I also don’t think the fact that we disagree makes you idiots or evil, but apparently it makes me those things in your minds.
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nah I have to push back against the last paragraph.

FlyGuy gets treated the way he does because he routinely makes things up, posts misinformation without doing basic googling or research, celebrates the suffering of others, and refuses to engage in good faith discussions (not an exhaustive list).

I don't think you were around when Habsy frequented this thread but there was a lot of dialogue there. it got heated at times but there was a lot of back and forth and exchange of ideas, with varying levels of collegiality, but he stuck around to own his previous positions.

I don't think anyone disputes that inflation was a huge issue, and remains a challenge (i.e. cost of living). but inflation is a single economic metric. wages have outpaced inflation in Biden's presidency. after Congress passed the Inflation Reduction Act, inflation decreased!

and inflation is pretty close to exactly where the fed wants it, at present. oh and like historic unemployment levels throughout much of his tenure, too.

and as for vibes on the economy - the chart was posted earlier showing that perceptions on the economy basically fall on party lines, and those feelings flipped post-election. so very, very vibey.

there were also surveys that showed people said their local economy was good, the state economy was good, but the federal one in the tank - again supporting the vibeconomy.
 
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