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OT: Movies/TV Shows

Bleedsblue&white

Well-known member
The thing is the first book IS heavily influenced by lord of the rings, Robert Jordan even admitted himself how big of an influence it was. However once you get through the first book it really becomes it's own thing as you are introduced to the wider world. Hopefully the show does okay and we get to see the tons of different nations and cultures from the books.
Influenced....well of course!
Wtf writes fantasy that isn't?

I'm doing this judging both series as a whole and I feel there are far, far more direct "rip offs," as zeke put it, than this.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
the show or the book?
the show downplayed the "powers" of the direwolves and the magic of the wall

I don't know if I would say "downplayed", they very much explained it all in terms of magic/god stuff...but then rarely spoke of their origins again and just allowed tits and politics to ground you in what appears to be a magicless day to day reality.
i would say there was a fantasy element from the start but it was not strong and was not the focus

Yep, tits and politics were the "focus". But the plot falls apart immediately without the magical elements. It's a mediocre medieval drama without magic walls, wolves, white walkers, wargs, resurrections, shapeshifting, etc.
i guess zombies count as magic too but i would not consider walking dead the same as gandalf

The zombies in this story are 100% of magical origin. Again it's a matter of perception here. Because GoT crafted a world of gritty realism (tits, politics, and murder) it's easy to convince yourself that it's not about the magic.
Dany is really the only main character with "magic powers" (fire does not hurt ) outside of maybe the stannis smoke baby (which actual seems really out of place now that i think about it)

Well, Jon was kind of a resurrected jesus figure. Arya is a shapeshifter (yes, that's what faceless men are, it's a power granted by their gods and it's very clearly stated as that in both books and show). Bran a warg. The mum resurrected in the books (Lady Stoneheart). Melisandre/Thoros obviously.

All the show did was explain things as magic or of the gods once and then never refer to it as magic again and viewers just took the shit for granted. That's brilliantly done to remove the perception of it being a magical world (making it more traditional high fantasy), but the facts are the facts.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
judging only from the first 3 episodes

some unimportant folks have to leave their home with a wizard to escape some dark power and orcs so they can travel to a white tower
i am just waiting for the Ents to show up

You're in luck, you don't have to wait until the middle of the story for the Ent this time.
 

worm

Well-known member
I don't know if I would say "downplayed", they very much explained it all in terms of magic/god stuff...but then rarely spoke of their origins again and just allowed tits and politics to ground you in what appears to be a magicless day to day reality.
Downplayed - magic/religion was sort of a thing of the past or scary stories for kids at the start - perhaps due to budget those things were not a big focus early on
Yep, tits and politics were the "focus". But the plot falls apart immediately without the magical elements. It's a mediocre medieval drama without magic walls, wolves, white walkers, wargs, resurrections, shapeshifting, etc.
Was more talking about how it was not shooting fireballs at the start - it became more and more about the magic as it went on
The zombies in this story are 100% of magical origin. Again it's a matter of perception here. Because GoT crafted a world of gritty realism (tits, politics, and murder) it's easy to convince yourself that it's not about the magic.
i was thinking specifically of when those wights were at the wall and jon killed them with fire - i dont think we know much about them at that stage
Well, Jon was kind of a resurrected jesus figure. Arya is a shapeshifter (yes, that's what faceless men are, it's a power granted by their gods and it's very clearly stated as that in both books and show). Bran a warg. The mum resurrected in the books (Lady Stoneheart). Melisandre/Thoros obviously.
was mostly focusing early on but - jon had no real powers from being undead (hopefully in the book they explain this better) - if he just was wounded and healed it does not really change anything

arya had some faceless shit that turned out to not be important at all but that wasnt until season 5 or so as things because more and more magical

bran's dreams were interesting - but the magic that the show messed up on imo was the connect with the direwolves - to me that is the most magic part of season 1/book 1

lady stoneheart - for the book - sure

i dont consider thoros or melsindre to be main characters but i did mention the smoke monster from lost

All the show did was explain things as magic or of the gods once and then never refer to it as magic again and viewers just took the shit for granted. That's brilliantly done to remove the perception of it being a magical world (making it more traditional high fantasy), but the facts are the facts.
it was fantasy for sure
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
it is also pretty obvious that Martin just sold from history and LOTR

There is a lot of high fantasy that features a lot of political plotting at various house/region/national level as well. GRRM would have been very well aware of them when he started writing ASOIAF
 

worm

Well-known member
There is a lot of high fantasy that features a lot of political plotting at various house/region/national level as well. GRRM would have been very well aware of them when he started writing ASOIAF
oh i am sure

but iirc he just directly lifted from history - like the red wedding actually happened as an example
(speaking of magic I am still yelling at robb to listen to his fucking direwolf - what an idiot)
 

zeke

Well-known member
What?
First of all, there are female characters in WoT...but where the hell you getting this dumb idea from?

I mean you can argue that every single fantasy is a Lotr ripoff if you want, but I'd like to hear your parallels cause I don't see enough for that comment.

Let's look at the first 10 minutes of the show....











And the TrollOrcs and the Dark One Sauron rising.
 

Bleedsblue&white

Well-known member
Meh, You guys seem to be talking about the movies, I was thinking about LOTR the books.
Besides which, as I said, that little trick zeke played with the shots could be done for basically every single one of these things.
Pull up the top fantasy movies of the last 30 years or so and you an do the same thing.

I maintain, and will be proven as the show goes on, Lotr is a different beast.
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
Full Disclosure: I tried to read WoT a couple years back and I couldn't get through book 1.

That's where most get caught up. The first half of book 1 drags like a motherfucker (I mentioned in a previous post that they've covered almost half of book 1 in 2 episodes now). The 2nd half is better but sort of doesn't "feel" exactly the same as the rest do because Jordan/Rigley went into it believing he was only writing 3 (publisher knew he had a habit of going long and signed him for 6 just in case) & in between writing 1 & 2 is when RJ figured out a lot of the lore, cultures, history, etc. Where the show should win over the books while covering this bit of the material is that they're making this with the benefit of all of the history, lore, culture, etc being well established.


Best advice is just to get through 1 as quickly as possible, the series starts hitting it's stride in #2-3 and then it's flat out awesome until about 8-9 when RJ gets lost in the weeds on some of his story arcs. Sanderson does a good job of reeling them all in and finishing well in #12-14.
 

Bleedsblue&white

Well-known member
Because Jordan tended to go on so much and also because that's what he was going for but the world building in these books is second to none... It's easy to get lost in it.
Sanderson has to be commended for finishing the series so well I'm not sure what would have happened if Jordan had to try to do it himself
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
I'm not sure what would have happened if Jordan had to try to do it himself

They would be fitting RJ for an android replacement body while he was finishing the manuscript for #27

Dude fell waaaay too in love with his world and would have happily wrote within it for decades more I think. The opposite of GRRM who apparently you can't pay enough fucking money to finish his.
 

Bleedsblue&white

Well-known member
The wheel of Time was a large chunk of my life those books took years and I would end up rereading however many books had been written when the newest one came out.
So yeah when people talk about book one being a bit of a grind I've done that grind at least five times fully before I started skimming through by the time we got to book seven
 
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