MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Rui to Lakers for Nunn and picks
OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread
- Thread starter hockeylover
- Start date
Leafin'
Well-known member
Can’t we sign Poeltl in the offseason? And use Trent in another trade?
Poeltl seems like a decent fit. But fuck this year. Tank at this point. Win a few more games for what? Get crushed by Bos, Mil, nets. Fuck that. Get one of those top kids in the draft. Scoot would be sick here. Miller. George. Black. Any of them would nice adds for the future.
Poeltl seems like a decent fit. But fuck this year. Tank at this point. Win a few more games for what? Get crushed by Bos, Mil, nets. Fuck that. Get one of those top kids in the draft. Scoot would be sick here. Miller. George. Black. Any of them would nice adds for the future.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Nunn and 3 2nd rounders...
I mean, I don't get it but I get it. Rui is almost 25 and barely a rotation player, but he's extension eligible this summer (only the QO season left on his rookie deal) so the Wizards want to punt on him for whatever they can get and spend the cap money elsewhere (apparently they've taken Kuzma off the trade block and want to re sign him, so that would make some sense to redeploy Rui's money to Kuzma, who is a much much better player)
I kind of get it for the Lakers, they're desperate for anyone who can play NBA minutes and Rui almost can.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Yeah, where this makes sense to me is that we've gone out into the market with Gary and didn't get the type of value we wanted in return and that this is a big step up from just walking away from him. Where getting Poeltl now makes sense is that we retain his bird rights if we trade for him and can hit the free agent market with our available dollars while still being able to resign him. We would need to use available cap space in the summer if we went after him on the open market. I'd much prefer to have his bird rights and go spend cap space on shooters.
I don't think Masai could make this team bad enough to get into the bottom 5 and there's something to be said for righting the ship and repairing the culture. We're like 1.5 games out of the play ins. Making some solid in season roster moves and a good stretch run coupled with getting through the play ins and making a series of it against a contending team wouldn't be terrible for the group. They're not blowing it up, nor should they, so make the best of it.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Seems like a Wiz win
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Why would we just assume we can sign Poetl in the offseason?
As far as i can tell FA still dont really sign with us, and were not a good team to boot
As far as i can tell FA still dont really sign with us, and were not a good team to boot
Leafin'
Well-known member
Why would he resign here then ?
I’ll be so pissed if they pull the same shit as last year. Thad Young was garbage then and he’s even more garbage now. Absolute dog shit. The justifications I heard last year can beat it.
Poeltl would be a solid get but I’m reading (Marc Stein) he’s looking at upwards of 20 million. Fuck that.
I’ll be so pissed if they pull the same shit as last year. Thad Young was garbage then and he’s even more garbage now. Absolute dog shit. The justifications I heard last year can beat it.
Poeltl would be a solid get but I’m reading (Marc Stein) he’s looking at upwards of 20 million. Fuck that.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
15-20 is about right for Poetl IMO and much better than 25-30 for GTJ
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Everyone is looking for big money in free agency and agents regularly leak to the media. Meh.
Look at the centre market over the last bunch of years:
Nurkic: 4x17.5
Robinson: 4x15
Allen: 5x20
Holmes: 4x11.6
Poeltl: 3x8.75
Favors: 3x9.7
AD & Ayton are really the only ones who got paid. I can't see anyone looking at Poeltl and thinking that he moves the needle enough to dip into available cap spend to go get him like that. 4/80 for him? Out of available cap spend? Nah.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Allen was younger and a significant step better when he hit free agency, and got 20. I can't see Poeltl getting it, Allen is a legitimately elite defender at the position. Nurkic isn't a bad comparison overall, but Nurk can score the ball. Important point with Nurkic as well is that Portland had his bird rights when they re signed him. That's not what he was going to get somewhere else. I remember hearing 12-14 being the number on the market for him. Bird rights matter a lot.
zeke
Well-known member
Also, LAC is being named as a team after Fred AND Lowry....which imo is obviously Kawhi saying he wants to play with them again and knows how good they are.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
That fucker never should have left
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Clippers have nothing we should want for Fred.
This is the Fred quandry. Contenders know his value, but they offer shit draft pick value and most of them don't have young players worth trading an all star calibre player for.
The only trade partner I see that make sense is New Orleans. Everyone else at the top either already has a primary ballhandler of roughly Fred level or better, has trash draft equity available and no future impact bodies they don't really need to keep. I'm sure there's some 3 way scenarios that could be made to wait though.
Regarding him punting on his agent. The optimist in me says that dude gave Fred bad "bet on yourself" advice last summer when he should have secured the bag. The pessimist in me is that he gave bad "bet on yourself advice" last summer, but pivoted to "just take the fucking offer" and Fred is intent on betting on free agency.
This is the Fred quandry. Contenders know his value, but they offer shit draft pick value and most of them don't have young players worth trading an all star calibre player for.
The only trade partner I see that make sense is New Orleans. Everyone else at the top either already has a primary ballhandler of roughly Fred level or better, has trash draft equity available and no future impact bodies they don't really need to keep. I'm sure there's some 3 way scenarios that could be made to wait though.
Regarding him punting on his agent. The optimist in me says that dude gave Fred bad "bet on yourself" advice last summer when he should have secured the bag. The pessimist in me is that he gave bad "bet on yourself advice" last summer, but pivoted to "just take the fucking offer" and Fred is intent on betting on free agency.
zeke
Well-known member
At least Fred has got his game back lately. Annoying that it coincided with pascal slipping, but that's only annoying in terms of our team's success rate - not so annoying if you agree that Fred is a guy to trade and Siakam is a guy to keep.
Agreed though that the point of trading Fred is to get at least one asset back that has a good chance of becoming a very good player, not just some lottery tickets.
Agreed though that the point of trading Fred is to get at least one asset back that has a good chance of becoming a very good player, not just some lottery tickets.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
I still think the right play for now is to
Keep: Pascal, Fred, OG, Scottie, Precious, Koloko
Trade: Gary, Boucher, Thad, Khem, Malachi, Juancho, etc
- Obviously get the best value you can for Gary.
- Turn Boucher into good lottery tickets and expiring salary. He's a valuable player for cheap.
- Turn Thad et all (who all expire this season or next) into someone else's contract problem that we can actually use (Richaun Holmes, Duncan Robinson, etc)
Then whatever happens down the stretch happens down the stretch. Playoffs, playins, lottery, whatever. Just play whatever is on the roster in appropriatle roles for what we have and let it happen. Address our shooting and centre issues in the summer if we weren't able to deal with them at the deadline, do the business that needs to be done (Fred extension) and run it back. Put better pieces around the core and see what they can do. How the fuck do you evaluate a core when you put nothing around it?
Keep: Pascal, Fred, OG, Scottie, Precious, Koloko
Trade: Gary, Boucher, Thad, Khem, Malachi, Juancho, etc
- Obviously get the best value you can for Gary.
- Turn Boucher into good lottery tickets and expiring salary. He's a valuable player for cheap.
- Turn Thad et all (who all expire this season or next) into someone else's contract problem that we can actually use (Richaun Holmes, Duncan Robinson, etc)
Then whatever happens down the stretch happens down the stretch. Playoffs, playins, lottery, whatever. Just play whatever is on the roster in appropriatle roles for what we have and let it happen. Address our shooting and centre issues in the summer if we weren't able to deal with them at the deadline, do the business that needs to be done (Fred extension) and run it back. Put better pieces around the core and see what they can do. How the fuck do you evaluate a core when you put nothing around it?
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Bob McCowan claims he's spoke to an NBA insider he trusts and that OG wants out.
For whatever that is worth.
Regarding Fred. I dont want to lose him for nothing and i dont think i want him long term i Nurse is going to murder him
For whatever that is worth.
Regarding Fred. I dont want to lose him for nothing and i dont think i want him long term i Nurse is going to murder him
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Saw this on twitter today...not sure what to think tbh
- McCowan is a goof. But a relatively well connected one.
- Someone on Raptors twitter I do trust to not be full of shit confirmed through his contacts who Bob was talking to and said that if the commenter was made public, we would be more likely to trust it, not less. With that said, I'm almost 100% it's Paul Jones. Paul Jones and McCowan have been golf buddies for 10+ years now and Jones is a semi regular guest on McCowan's podcast.
- Even if it's from Jones, I'd be surprised if he heard this from OG himself. More likely it's still people with other teams trying to pry OG loose (the Knicks want OG bad-bad. They're almost definitely the super secret team that offered 3 firsts earlier this year fwiw.)
- Now, I could see OG wanting out for 2 very different reasons. First is that he wants to win again and this is 2 out of 3 seasons we've been lottery meat. Second is that he's due to get paid again after next season and his offensive role has stagnated here. I'd argue that's on him at this point. We're talking about a guy that can't really shoot off of the dribble and isn't a great slasher. He's a good and competent offensive player, but I don't see another level here. There's not a lot of offensive awareness in his game. The entire modern space and pace game is based on the ability to move the basketball to the open shooter in space. OG is turnover prone and not a great distributor. He's a 3rd-4th option on a competitive team.
- McCowan is a goof. But a relatively well connected one.
- Someone on Raptors twitter I do trust to not be full of shit confirmed through his contacts who Bob was talking to and said that if the commenter was made public, we would be more likely to trust it, not less. With that said, I'm almost 100% it's Paul Jones. Paul Jones and McCowan have been golf buddies for 10+ years now and Jones is a semi regular guest on McCowan's podcast.
- Even if it's from Jones, I'd be surprised if he heard this from OG himself. More likely it's still people with other teams trying to pry OG loose (the Knicks want OG bad-bad. They're almost definitely the super secret team that offered 3 firsts earlier this year fwiw.)
- Now, I could see OG wanting out for 2 very different reasons. First is that he wants to win again and this is 2 out of 3 seasons we've been lottery meat. Second is that he's due to get paid again after next season and his offensive role has stagnated here. I'd argue that's on him at this point. We're talking about a guy that can't really shoot off of the dribble and isn't a great slasher. He's a good and competent offensive player, but I don't see another level here. There's not a lot of offensive awareness in his game. The entire modern space and pace game is based on the ability to move the basketball to the open shooter in space. OG is turnover prone and not a great distributor. He's a 3rd-4th option on a competitive team.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Yeah, he was unhappy with his role to start the year so this is nothing new, and i could see him and the team agreeing to keep a trade request quiet.
Also out there is a team ( NYK is the guess) offered 3 firsts for OG, and industry sources think the Raps would get a Dejounte Murray like package if not more for him.
Also out there is a team ( NYK is the guess) offered 3 firsts for OG, and industry sources think the Raps would get a Dejounte Murray like package if not more for him.