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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

UWHabs

Well-known member
I would substitute Teo for LGJ as I am not quite convinced his bat will out pace his fielding. I know that there has been allusions to Joey Bats with him. But JBats could play a realistic infield position while Teo can only play 1st. Sell high, unless you think his .919ops/ 146ops+ is the Real Teo going forward.

LGJ had .882ops/138ops+ while Baseball-Reference simulated that LGJ to come out with a WAR of 4, while Teo simulated to a WAR of 2.7.

LGJ defense is the reason to keep him, while he makes better contact then Teo.

Throw in a Rowdy and we have a deal.

Yeah, that I can get behind more. I trust Lourdes more going forward.
 

drewser

Well-known member
If Gurriel is in the package, we shouldn't be putting Groshans/SWR in as a second piece. Shatkins reached out to the Indians for Kluber a year ago and they apparently requested Kirk...Gurriel + Kirk for Lindor? Even that seems steep for 1yr of Lindor coming off a down 1/3 year.
 

axlsalinger

Well-known member
They are going to (rightfully) demand a top prospect at the top of the package. If you refuse to give them Martin, that's Groshans.
 

GEEMAN

Well-known member
If Gurriel is in the package, we shouldn't be putting Groshans/SWR in as a second piece. Shatkins reached out to the Indians for Kluber a year ago and they apparently requested Kirk...Gurriel + Kirk for Lindor? Even that seems steep for 1yr of Lindor coming off a down 1/3 year.
I agree , Lindor is a stud but why make the move before we see what this team is all about

We would of missed the playoffs in a full 162 season last year

I understand we have an advantage in this Covid situation as other teams wont spend

If we are going to throw money at players blow your brains out on free agency pitching like Bauer and another arm who can move the needle

Bichette is going to be solid SS , Gurriel is on the cheap for years …...I don't think we need Lindor
 

drewser

Well-known member
If Groshans is the main piece you have to do it but Gurriel + Groshans? Not sure I see anyone paying that kind of package for 1yr of Lindor in today's climate unless the Mets decide to go mental.
 

Pwner

New member
I think the thing is.... they want to upgrade defensively.

Teo is BAD defensively, LGJ is not, same with Lindor.

Move one of Bichette or Biggio over to 3rd until Groshans is ready, once you acquire Lindor and now you have a LEGIT infield defense.

BTW Jays might be in on Simmons because of defense.

Same for the outfield. LGJ is good defensively in left (SS arm). Grichuk historically has been really good in RF. Sign Springer for CF. Move him over to RF when Martin is ready. Now you have a LEGIT outfield defense. And probably an upgrade on Offense as well.

They Jays are well situated to add big money this year (like the Leafs when they went after Marleau and JT) as their main guys are still 4-5 years away from making really bank. Sign a couple of $20 - $30 mil studs and have them lead this up and coming team.

Pitching wise, probably something like James Paxton and resigning of Walker.
 

manny

Well-known member
I doubt that Hernandez has a lot of trade value, tbh. If he does, of course move him first.
He's not going to be a key piece for Lindor though.
 

UWHabs

Well-known member
I think the thing is.... they want to upgrade defensively.

Teo is BAD defensively, LGJ is not, same with Lindor.

Move one of Bichette or Biggio over to 3rd until Groshans is ready, once you acquire Lindor and now you have a LEGIT infield defense.

BTW Jays might be in on Simmons because of defense.

Same for the outfield. LGJ is good defensively in left (SS arm). Grichuk historically has been really good in RF. Sign Springer for CF. Move him over to RF when Martin is ready. Now you have a LEGIT outfield defense. And probably an upgrade on Offense as well.

They Jays are well situated to add big money this year (like the Leafs when they went after Marleau and JT) as their main guys are still 4-5 years away from making really bank. Sign a couple of $20 - $30 mil studs and have them lead this up and coming team.

Pitching wise, probably something like James Paxton and resigning of Walker.

Yeah this year especially is a big year to upgrade defensively. You have multiple studs that are available as FA or in trade (Springer, Lindor, maybe guys like Arenado). Or as well or if you can't get the top line players, players like JBJ, Wong, Simmons are studs defensively and not pathetic with the bat. You can very easily bring in 2 of them, one IF and one OF, and the team immediately looks so much better.

But you can't mortgage the future for one year, especially when it's not like things are solid in the world. That's probably going to be a big negative to the Jays this off-season. Trying to convince guys to sign to play the season potentially again in Buffalo or who knows where is going to be tough. But even aside from that, the team overall is young, so whoever you add needs to be around for the next few seasons.
 

GEEMAN

Well-known member
Yeah this year especially is a big year to upgrade defensively. You have multiple studs that are available as FA or in trade (Springer, Lindor, maybe guys like Arenado). Or as well or if you can't get the top line players, players like JBJ, Wong, Simmons are studs defensively and not pathetic with the bat. You can very easily bring in 2 of them, one IF and one OF, and the team immediately looks so much better.

But you can't mortgage the future for one year, especially when it's not like things are solid in the world. That's probably going to be a big negative to the Jays this off-season. Trying to convince guys to sign to play the season potentially again in Buffalo or who knows where is going to be tough. But even aside from that, the team overall is young, so whoever you add needs to be around for the next few seasons.


Excellent point on the mortgage the future part

The thing is this team is young and developing but you cant put your poker chips to the middle of the table after a brief success
in a shortened season . We need our young trio to take the next step this year and Nate to be healthy and a legit top 3 .

I think we have a great shot at throwing money at Bauer for 3 years , that's a solid 1-2 with Ryu
 

drewser

Well-known member
Excellent point on the mortgage the future part

The thing is this team is young and developing but you cant put your poker chips to the middle of the table after a brief success
in a shortened season . We need our young trio to take the next step this year and Nate to be healthy and a legit top 3 .

I think we have a great shot at throwing money at Bauer for 3 years , that's a solid 1-2 with Ryu
I don't think they'd put any of the names being mentioned on the table for Lindor if they didn't expect to sign him beyond next season, so not really an all-in move for brief success. The cost needs to make sense though and we know Shatkins loves years of control, so I don't think the packages being thrown around make much sense for us. I'm pretty sure the LGJ + Groshans idea began with Ben Ennis throwing shit against the wall on radio yesterday, so probably nothing to it but Morosi was also mentioning names like Groshan/Martin today as well.

It's debatable but I'd say a LGJ + Groshans combo would be a stronger return than the Red Sox got for a better player in Betts and he was coming off a much better season than Lindor had this year, in a significantly more stable financial market and on a team that wasn't desperate to move him. Obviously there's the Price component to it as well but with the money the Red Sox swallowed, it was a pretty small risk for the Dodgers to take and doubt it impacted the return all that much (reports were that they were never willing to talk names like Lux/May even without Price involved).
 

drewser

Well-known member
Bowden on Jays/Lindor:
The Jays made it back to the playoffs this year, and the enthusiasm north of the border is building serious momentum. Toronto has built a core of younger players that should make them legitimate contenders for the next four to six years. The Jays already have one of the best young shortstops in baseball in Bo Bichette, but who wouldn’t want to add Lindor and ask Bichette to move to second base? Toronto President Mark Shapiro is a huge fan of Lindor from his days with Cleveland, and certainly would love to have him. The only question is whether he would be willing to pay the $300 million price tag. The Blue Jays could offer the Indians either Cavan Biggio or Lourdes Gurriel Jr. off their major league team; Biggio is controlled through 2025 and Gurriel through 2024. One year of control of Lindor for either four or five years of control of Biggio or Gurriel would make it tough for the Indians to say no. However, most likely the Blue Jays would rather make it a prospect trade, as long as it didn’t include top prospects like Nate Pearson, Austin Martin, Jordan Groshans or pitchers like Alek Manoah and Simeon Woods Richardson. Perhaps a package centered around shortstop Orelvis Martinez and catcher Gabriel Moreno along with right-handed pitcher Adam Kloffenstein could get it done.
 

manny

Well-known member
Orelvis Martinez is a guy I’d try hard not to trade. I doubt very much that his trade value would match his potential. Groshans is perhaps the opposite.
 

soco22

Well-known member
Seinfeld said it best with pilots. He feels safer when it’s a female cause he knows how much better they have to be to just get the job compared to most men
 
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