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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

zeke

Well-known member
While I kinda agreed with him it's always nice to hear Buck choke on one of his oldskool rants like "I don't care about pitch counts I'd leave Ray in to lose this one it's his game to lose".
 

manny

Well-known member
Hard to conclude that's what they're trying to do with this pitching staff, but you can always get lucky. They've actually had some good luck so far with guys like Ray and Matz. They just assembled a laughable group.
 

soco22

Well-known member
Management is dumb to give up a year of having this core together. Go get some arms. Similar to leafs there is a countdown and have to position the team to win while they have these cores together.
 

UWHabs

Well-known member
Management is dumb to give up a year of having this core together. Go get some arms. Similar to leafs there is a countdown and have to position the team to win while they have these cores together.

Well, they did sign the top FA of the off-season, and gave some 1-year deals to guys like Semien and Yates, so I don't think they've "given up" the year yet (not to mention there's been like 1 trade so far, teams don't usually trade this early).

But I would agree with the sentiment - with Vlad certainly breaking out big, Semien back to being a legit bat, and also the fact that no other AL team is really running away with things, this is a year to push. Then it's just a question of figuring out which arm to target between now and the deadline to make that push.
 

anne25

Well-known member
With the Jays luck it would be a pitcher who goes on the IL to needing Tommy John surgery two weeks after the trade.
 

UWHabs

Well-known member
has shatkins shown any willingness, ever, to trade prospects for MLB ready talent?

They've never been in position to want to. For years we kept telling to trade away their MLB talent for prospects.

Of course, for the record, I concur with Anne's theory - they will finally pull the trigger on someone, and they will last about 3 games before they get injured. Given the team's track record, they will then call up some scrub from AAA, who will pitch 4-5 games of absolutely dominant baseball, before we finally give them a high leverage chance and they go walk 6 batters in a row to blow the game, before being placed on the IL with "forearm tightness".
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
They've never been in position to want to. For years we kept telling to trade away their MLB talent for prospects.

Of course, for the record, I concur with Anne's theory - they will finally pull the trigger on someone, and they will last about 3 games before they get injured. Given the team's track record, they will then call up some scrub from AAA, who will pitch 4-5 games of absolutely dominant baseball, before we finally give them a high leverage chance and they go walk 6 batters in a row to blow the game, before being placed on the IL with "forearm tightness".
I just meant like ever in their history as executives
 

MindzEye

Wayward Ditch Pig
I just meant like ever in their history as executives

They traded chris archer to tampa for mark derosa once upon a time.

The vast majority of his moves with the Indians were to trade for prospects or young players, giving up mlb veteran players.
 

manny

Well-known member
They traded prospects for Stripling. Kendall WIlliams is an actual prospect. Ryan Noda not so much but I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn into something for the Dodgers. They traded kind of a prospect (Griffin Conine) for Jonathan Villar. A couple sort of prospects (SRF and Yennsy Diaz for Matz).

The problem isn't really the category of player they're willing to trade, it's the risk they're willing to take (almost none) and the resulting calibre of player you can get for guys like that.
 

UWHabs

Well-known member
They traded prospects for Stripling. Kendall WIlliams is an actual prospect. Ryan Noda not so much but I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn into something for the Dodgers. They traded kind of a prospect (Griffin Conine) for Jonathan Villar. A couple sort of prospects (SRF and Yennsy Diaz for Matz).

The problem isn't really the category of player they're willing to trade, it's the risk they're willing to take (almost none) and the resulting calibre of player you can get for guys like that.

Yeah, their entire MO is "let's not rock the boat", which leads to those lower tier "prospect" deals, and the numerous cases like JD and others where they refused to deal away a pending FA until it was practically too late.

So yeah, given their history, I really can't see them deal a guy like Groshans or Orelvis or anyone who's in the top-100, even if it meant getting back a Scherzer-type arm. It will almost certainly be another "low tier prospect for old possibly over the hill reliever who's nonetheless had a decent start to the season".
 

Wayward DP

Well-known member
I mean if the above is all true we're theoretically getting close to reaching this management team's 'peak', no?

If we all agree that what is needed to put this team over the top is MLB level pitching talent, and the best way to acquire it at present is by trading prospects, but there is no indication ever in their history as executives that they will trade the calibre of prospect required to acquire a top/mid-rotation starter etc., then we would essentially be stuck?

Obviously things can change. Suppose time will tell.
 

GEEMAN

Well-known member
They've never been in position to want to. For years we kept telling to trade away their MLB talent for prospects.

Of course, for the record, I concur with Anne's theory - they will finally pull the trigger on someone, and they will last about 3 games before they get injured. Given the team's track record, they will then call up some scrub from AAA, who will pitch 4-5 games of absolutely dominant baseball, before we finally give them a high leverage chance and they go walk 6 batters in a row to blow the game, before being placed on the IL with "forearm tightness".

You don’t dump teams quality prospects for the sake of making a trade

Team is clearly making progress with a young lineup , but pitching injuries killed them

They would be 5 games better right now in the win column
 

LeafGm

Well-known member
You don’t dump teams quality prospects for the sake of making a trade

Team is clearly making progress with a young lineup , but pitching injuries killed them

They would be 5 games better right now in the win column


This isn’t like hockey. There isn’t any other professional sport where the prospects are more expendable and more of a crap shoot than baseball.

Especially when you have a good team with a plausible path to the playoffs and clear holes that need to be filled.
 
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