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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

zeke

zeke

Well-known member
Moreno has never shown any ability to take walks at any level, and hasn't shown any power since AA. His batting upside looks pretty limited unless something changes.

And while he has a gun on defense, so far the other arguably more important defensive skills - pitch framing and pitch blocking - aren't showing so well. And yeah he's young and inexperienced but so is Kirk and Kirk's numbers in those areas are quite good.
 
zeke

zeke

Well-known member
Offseason Tracker

* Kiermaier: 160pa, 126wrc+, 1.5war, 6.1war/650pa
* Gurriel: 217pa, 143wrc+, 1.7war, 5.1war/650pa

* Belt: 161pa, 126wrc+, 0.5war, 2.0war/650pa
* Teoscar: 243pa, 92wrc+, 0.3war, 0.8war/650pa

* Varsho: 244pa, 84wrc+, 0.5war, 1.3war/650pa
* Moreno: 163pa, 86wrc+, 0.3war, 1.2war/650pa

* Lukes: 16pa, 88wrc+, 0.1war, 4.1war/650pa or Heineman: 8pa, 112wrc+, 0.0war, 0.0war/650pa
* Tapia: 97pa, 92wrc+, 0.4war, 2.7war/650pa (DFA'd today)


* Bassitt: 12gms, 6.2ip/gm, 81era-, 1.0war, 2.5war/32gms
* Stripling: 9gms, 3.6ip/gm, 171era-, -0.6war, -2.0war/32gms

* Swanson: 28gms, 1.0ip/gm, 67era-, 0.5war, 1.2war/65gms
* Merryweather: 24gms, 1.0ip/gm, 96era-, 0.2war, 0.5war/65gms

* Green: ---
* Phelps: retired
 
manny

manny

Well-known member
zeke said:
Moreno has never shown any ability to take walks at any level, and hasn't shown any power since AA. His batting upside looks pretty limited unless something changes.

And while he has a gun on defense, so far the other arguably more important defensive skills - pitch framing and pitch blocking - aren't showing so well. And yeah he's young and inexperienced but so is Kirk and Kirk's numbers in those areas are quite good.
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True that he hasn’t shown any power since AA, but also that was only 2021 and he’s now just 23 years old. It’s not at all out of the question that Moreno’s power comes back in the next year or two.

Also for context, Moreno hasn’t shown any power since Sept 2021, Kirk hasn’t shown any power since June, 2022. Not that different, except Moreno is hitting the ball a lot harder than Kirk this year. Moreno’s avg exit velocity is 62nd percentile, and his hard hit% is 60th. Not amazing, but pretty solid for a rookie catcher. Kirk’s are 6th and 16th. Basically unplayable.

In the end I don’t think trading Moreno for Varsho was a bad deal, but they probably could have avoided throwing in Gurriel or else gotten another piece back. It’s also just indicative of how this front office manages risk. Moreno was (and is) high risk/high reward. Varsho is lower on both scales, so of course they went for him. Probably doesn’t hurt that Varsho went to college and plays the white way.
 
G

GEEMAN

Well-known member
manny said:
True that he hasn’t shown any power since AA, but also that was only 2021 and he’s now just 23 years old. It’s not at all out of the question that Moreno’s power comes back in the next year or two.

Also for context, Moreno hasn’t shown any power since Sept 2021, Kirk hasn’t shown any power since June, 2022. Not that different, except Moreno is hitting the ball a lot harder than Kirk this year. Moreno’s avg exit velocity is 62nd percentile, and his hard hit% is 60th. Not amazing, but pretty solid for a rookie catcher. Kirk’s are 6th and 16th. Basically unplayable.

In the end I don’t think trading Moreno for Varsho was a bad deal, but they probably could have avoided throwing in Gurriel or else gotten another piece back. It’s also just indicative of how this front office manages risk. Moreno was (and is) high risk/high reward. Varsho is lower on both scales, so of course they went for him. Probably doesn’t hurt that Varsho went to college and plays the white way.
Click to expand...
Gurriel is a UFA and was gone at the end of the year

He was also injury prone and slumped in stages
 
zeke

zeke

Well-known member
manny said:
True that he hasn’t shown any power since AA, but also that was only 2021 and he’s now just 23 years old. It’s not at all out of the question that Moreno’s power comes back in the next year or two.
Click to expand...

Sure, it's possible. But we're talking about not just little power but ZERO power shown in AAA or MLB so far, and while 23 is young it's not that young. And the power he showed before AA was only middling in the first place. The only plus power he's ever shown is in that 145pa AA sample which looked like a breakout at that time but turns out not really.

manny said:
Also for context, Moreno hasn’t shown any power since Sept 2021, Kirk hasn’t shown any power since June, 2022. Not that different, except Moreno is hitting the ball a lot harder than Kirk this year. Moreno’s avg exit velocity is 62nd percentile, and his hard hit% is 60th. Not amazing, but pretty solid for a rookie catcher.
Click to expand...

It's a concern, but Kirk maintained his pop right through AAA and MLB before that. And this is actually the first year that Kirk's exit velo (85.8) is lower than Moreno's current 90.0 or his 89.2 last year..

but yeah if it's actually dissappeared now that would suck for sure.

manny said:
Kirk’s are 6th and 16th. Basically unplayable.
Click to expand...

thanks to his good approach it's actually not unplayable tho - he has a 99wrc+, dead average, even with zero pop so far.
 
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