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OT: True Crime

@WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou I skipped past your Thomas Arthur Valllee post cause I was replying to something else and forgot to get back to it.

I only know he’s brought up in docs because he was arrested with a bunch of weapons and was believed to have been planning an assassination attempt on Kennedy….he was also a member of some extreme right wing group?….what was the actual plot they discovered that tied him to the CIA etc? Like to read more on it, as the docs kinda gloss over it and skip past without delving into it any further.
Vallee was in the John Birch Society, if memory serves. But like Oswald he was also in the Marines and also served at a super secret base in Japan that monitored the U2 flights over the USSR. Like Oswald moving to Dallas he also moved to Chicago just a short time before Kennedy visited the city. He was essentially another Oswald (or, more accurately, Oswald was another Vallee) These guys were sought out, groomed, and placed into Kennedy's path. Their back stories were manufactured to make them seem like lone wolves. But they were cut-out's, stooges, patsies.

There was another would-be Oswald in Tampa as well who also bore many similarities to Oswald. So if Kennedy hadn't been killed in Dallas, some other "Oswald" would have become famous.
 
Vallee was in the John Birch Society, if memory serves.

He was, that’s one thing I had also read but the name escaped me. General Walker was also a. Rich Society member ironically.


But like Oswald he was also in the Marines and also served at a super secret base in Japan that monitored the U2 flights over the USSR. Like Oswald moving to Dallas he also moved to Chicago just a short time before Kennedy visited the city.

Was a Marine, stationed at the biggest naval air base in the Pacific, and also moved to one of the bigger cities in the US, which the running for re-election President was planning to visit.

Oswald was also a communist Castro supporter, while Vallee was a member of the most anti-communist group active in the U.S. at the time.


this isn’t very conclusive evidence he was “another Oswald set up as a patsy plant” imo….it’s an example of some of the biases I listed above.

Like….a textbook definition of them.

He was essentially another Oswald (or, more accurately, Oswald was another Vallee) These guys were sought out, groomed, and placed into Kennedy's path. Their back stories were manufactured to make them seem like lone wolves. But they were cut-out's, stooges, patsies.

this part is all imagined fanfiction, to fit the narrative….with zero evidence to support it I’m guessing, otherwise you’d have mentioned it?

There was another would-be Oswald in Tampa as well who also bore many similarities to Oswald.

Lets hear em….I hope it’s a stronger case than this Vallee one tho.
 
He isn’t just some random plucked from hundreds of thousands of people tho….he’s the one person the vast majority of the evidence concretely points to.

It doesn’t prove the case…but it’s just yet another indicator you’re probably heading in the right direction…
again, it's an interesting data point if you're trying to put together a psychological profile, but it's not that interesting. And again, I know you are fighting tooth and nail against the idea that the CIA did anything untoward whatsoever in the early 60s, but IF they were involved in building the case against him, we would have to question how much of this info is fabricated or embellished.

ask yourself the question, in an effort to decide how probable you think that is. That they’d give him a known used (and apparently reused?) alias, that would directly tie him back to the CIA….instead of giving him his own fresh alias.
you are so irrational on this point that I'm sorry I brought it up. But I don't know why it's so hard to understand that a group of operatives would have a list of alias names they could use in the late 50s and early 60s and change the variations ... Alek Hidell, AJ Hidell, Alex Hiddell, etc. But sure, most likely it's a name made up and used by Oswald, or by the people who framed him, if you believe in that sort of thing. ;)

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/pseudodb.php

There is also the question of 2 wallets, and the possibility that the ID cards were planted and linked to Oswald after the fact. I know, Occam's Razor applies 100% of the time to everything, blah blah blah, but if there was a CIA conspiracy then it's likely they fabricated and/or planted evidence.


In my April 21 article, I asked the question Who found Oswald’s Wallet?

In this article I pose the question: Was a phony identification card for “Alek HIdell” inserted into the wallet after it was found?

Listen here to Dallas Police Department Officer Gerald Hill discuss the capture of Lee Harvey Oswald on November 22, 1963. [Editor’s note: to cut to the chase, go to 3:17 in the audio file.]

Listen for what Hill does not say:

He does not say anything about “Hidell” or an identification card.

Is this omission significant? I think it is.

My previous article recounted the details. FBI agent Bob Barrett said he saw Oswald’s wallet in the hands of DPD Captain Michael Westbrook at the scene of the murder of Dallas police office J.D. Tippit on November 22, 1963.

The article also recounted that the arresting officer, Paul Bentley, told a different story. Bentley said he found Oswald’s wallet while frisking him in the police car after leaving the Texas Theatre where Oswald was arrested on November 22.

Both men say that the wallet contained identification cards for both Lee Harvey Oswald and “Alek Hidell.”

So was Oswald carrying the Alek Hidell ID in his wallet when he was arrested?

He had not been previously seen using the ID card, or the Hidell alias. Oswald wasn’t carrying a “Hidell” ID card in his wallet three months before in August 1963 when he was arrested in New Orleans for fighting with Cuban exiles disturbed by his pro-Castro activism. After his arrest, Oswald said he was in touch with a fellow Castro supporter named “Hidell,” which was a lie.

Questions

If Oswald’s wallet containing the Hidell ID card was found on Oswald’s person on November 22, 1963, why do none of the contemporaneous police reports from that day say anything about “Hidell” or an ID card in another name besides Oswald’s?

Bentley did not say that the Hidell ID was in Oswald’s wallet until June 11, 1964. Bentley never testified to the Warren Commission.
 
In what way did Earle Cabell help the CIA murder Kennedy….

There is a potential connection between Cabell and the motorcade route:


"Here is the first major revelation from the historic release of previously withheld government records on the JFK Assassination: the mayor of Dallas when President John F. Kennedy was killed in that city was a CIA asset.

We were alerted to this salient fact by retired military intelligence officer and author John Newman, who is conducting a thorough analysis of the long-secret documents.

At the time of the assassination, Dallas Mayor Earle Cabell, brother of one-time Deputy Director of Central Intelligence Charles P. Cabell, had been a CIA asset since 1956.

It is worth noting that Kennedy dismissed CIA Director Allen Dulles in November 1961, and that Earle Cabell’s brother Charles left the CIA on January 31, 1962, after Kennedy forced him to resign. Thus, both Dulles and Charles Cabell were no longer working for the CIA on November 22, 1963, when Kennedy was killed.

Earle Cabell, who had been elected mayor of Dallas in May 1961, oversaw arrangements for Kennedy’s trip and motorcade, which took him through Dealey Plaza, a route that violated almost all standard rules for presidential safety — and where normal safeguards, such as sealing windows and placing sharpshooters, were ignored. This is of interest to researchers into the assassination, who have been collecting evidence of CIA ties to a host of individuals who figure in the events of 11/22/63 (see also WhoWhatWhy Editor-in-Chief Russ Baker’s Family of Secrets for more on this topic.)"
 
There is a potential connection between Cabell and the motorcade route:


"Here is the first major revelation from the historic release of previously withheld government records on the JFK Assassination: the mayor of Dallas when President John F. Kennedy was killed in that city was a CIA asset.

We were alerted to this salient fact by retired military intelligence officer and author John Newman, who is conducting a thorough analysis of the long-secret documents.

At the time of the assassination, Dallas Mayor Earle Cabell, brother of one-time Deputy Director of Central Intelligence Charles P. Cabell, had been a CIA asset since 1956.

It is worth noting that Kennedy dismissed CIA Director Allen Dulles in November 1961, and that Earle Cabell’s brother Charles left the CIA on January 31, 1962, after Kennedy forced him to resign. Thus, both Dulles and Charles Cabell were no longer working for the CIA on November 22, 1963, when Kennedy was killed.

Earle Cabell, who had been elected mayor of Dallas in May 1961, oversaw arrangements for Kennedy’s trip and motorcade, which took him through Dealey Plaza, a route that violated almost all standard rules for presidential safety — and where normal safeguards, such as sealing windows and placing sharpshooters, were ignored. This is of interest to researchers into the assassination, who have been collecting evidence of CIA ties to a host of individuals who figure in the events of 11/22/63 (see also WhoWhatWhy Editor-in-Chief Russ Baker’s Family of Secrets for more on this topic.)"
This.

Why, when the motorcade was going through Dealey Plaza, did the path make that right turn off of Main Street then a near-hairpin left turn on Elm Street (forcing the limo to slow down significantly) just to rejoin Main Street at the Stemmons Freeway on the other side of the railroad overpass? Why not just go straight down Main Street through the center of the plaza? It was a needless detour that never should have happened. But how would they be able to shoot Kennedy otherwise? He'd have been too far away if the motorcade had just stayed on Main Street.
 
by the way, despite Montana's insinuations, pretty much everybody involved with the Warren Commission outside of Earl Warren himself has questioned the committee's setup, methods, and findings. Some interesting points in here:


Even 2 ACTUAL MEMBERS OF THE WARREN COMMISSION were unconvinced: (there were only 7 members)

Among Ford’s many leaks was the revelation that two unnamed members of the Commission—most likely Richard Russell and Hale Boggs—remained unconvinced by FBI evidence that the kill shot had been fired from the Texas School Book Depository.

The FBI and the CIA had monitored Lee Harvey Oswald in the months before the assassination, but both agencies later tried to downplay their knowledge of him to the Warren Commission. Oswald had once even left a threatening note for an FBI agent at the Bureau’s office in Dallas. Fearful of catching blame for not preventing the assassination, the FBI later destroyed the note and even removed the agent’s name from a typewritten transcript of Oswald’s address book provided to the Warren Commission. Congressman Hale Boggs would later say that FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover “lied his eyes out” to the Commission’s investigators.

Richard Russell reluctantly signed the Warren Report even though he could not rule out the possibility of a conspiracy, and he later admitted to having “lingering dissatisfaction” with many of its conclusions. Congressman Hale Boggs had similar doubts about the report, in particular the “single bullet theory”—the argument that one shot had stuck both President Kennedy and Texas Governor John Connally.

Lyndon Johnson remained in lock step with the Warren Commission’s findings for most of his career, but he privately disagreed with the single bullet theory and reportedly believed that the Cubans had engineered the assassination. Likewise, President Kennedy’s brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, publicly commended the Warren Report even though he suspected a conspiracy had taken place.
 
again, it's an interesting data point if you're trying to put together a psychological profile, but it's not that interesting.

It’s more informative than a very large chunk of the “evidence” you guys believe points to a conspiracy, but okay.


And again, I know you are fighting tooth and nail against the idea that the CIA did anything untoward whatsoever in the early 60s

never once said that.
, but IF they were involved in building the case against him, we would have to question how much of this info is fabricated or embellished.

I’d think the more important question would be how did they get thousands of witnesses, Cops, FBI agents, CIA agents, to all collectively conspire together without ever tipping their hand or having one of them provide concrete evidence of said conspiracy? (So so so many conspiratorial plots both successful & failed, have all been exposed to the daylight over time….how has nothing concrete ever surfaced for this one?)


you are so irrational on this point that I'm sorry I brought it up.

Oh yeah. I’m the irrational one. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣

But I don't know why it's so hard to understand that a group of operatives would have a list of alias names they could use in the late 50s and early 60s and change the variations ... Alek Hidell, AJ Hidell, Alex Hiddell, etc. But sure, most likely it's a name made up and used by Oswald, or by the people who framed him, if you believe in that sort of thing. ;)

I mean yeah, if they pulled off the kind of flawless conspiracy you believe in….they’d have absolutely have made up an alias for him out of whole cloth, not one that could be tied back to them.


That would be fucking moronic.

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/pseudodb.php

There is also the question of 2 wallets, and the possibility that the ID cards were planted and linked to Oswald after the fact.

is there a question of two wallets, or is this a imagined hypothetical to explain away how damning it is that he literally had a wallet on him containing the Alex Hiddell fake ID?

(you’ve also now roped in the Dallas beat cops who arrested him, and got the wallet….this conspiracy grows exponentially by the post)

corrections: there was controversy over two officers claiming to have been the one to discover Oswald’s wallet….one on Oswald’s person, and another at Tippets murder scene, which was soaked in Tippets blood, and had been video taped by a news station as having been at that scene. This wallet contained the Alek Hiddell fake ID.
I know, Occam's Razor applies 100% of the time to everything, blah blah blah, but if there was a CIA conspiracy then it's likely they fabricated and/or planted evidence.

have you ever tabulated just how many “if’s” you’ve required in this thread at nearly every stop to string this absurdity together?…and that’s not counting the hundred or thousands more you’d need to explain everything else away.

on plenty of the ones you’ve proposed I’d have no problem conceding a “what if” the issue is how exponentially improbable it gets when you have to start stacking them one after another after another, on and on, and usually pulling more and more people into the conspiracy. Again, any one thing on it’s own, implausible but sure let’s pretend, but it’s not logically consistent to believe the CIA orchestrated every minute detail of this case to the extend required to pull it off….let alone keep it under wraps all these years.


in general I have plenty of respect for you intellectually, so I’m kinda embarrassed reading these “questions” by a conspiracy website as some sort of proof of a conspiracy of a planted ID by the chief of police?

they don’t even have anyone claiming to have seen the ID planted or implying it occurred….they just ask the question (“it’s the implication”)….and that’s all we need to wave away him being found with the ID that ties him to the gun?

correction: found at the tippet crime scene it would appear.

oh, and didn’t he use the card when picking up the gun at the post office….I know Marina also testified to him using the alias, but I know we’re ignoring anything his wife says cause some guy claimed she’s a Russia spy (who is doing the CIA’s dirty work for them, for some reason?).

I can’t convince myself you actually believe this nonsense is true….I’m with you when it comes to just turning off our brain and taking it all in as a “what if” piece of entertainment….but to believe this house of cards narrative that the theorists construct, never holds up to even the tiniest bit of scrutiny.
 
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There is a potential connection between Cabell and the motorcade route:


"Here is the first major revelation from the historic release of previously withheld government records on the JFK Assassination: the mayor of Dallas when President John F. Kennedy was killed in that city was a CIA asset.

We were alerted to this salient fact by retired military intelligence officer and author John Newman, who is conducting a thorough analysis of the long-secret documents.

At the time of the assassination, Dallas Mayor Earle Cabell, brother of one-time Deputy Director of Central Intelligence Charles P. Cabell, had been a CIA asset since 1956.

It is worth noting that Kennedy dismissed CIA Director Allen Dulles in November 1961, and that Earle Cabell’s brother Charles left the CIA on January 31, 1962, after Kennedy forced him to resign. Thus, both Dulles and Charles Cabell were no longer working for the CIA on November 22, 1963, when Kennedy was killed.

Earle Cabell, who had been elected mayor of Dallas in May 1961, oversaw arrangements for Kennedy’s trip and motorcade, which took him through Dealey Plaza, a route that violated almost all standard rules for presidential safety — and where normal safeguards, such as sealing windows and placing sharpshooters, were ignored. This is of interest to researchers into the assassination, who have been collecting evidence of CIA ties to a host of individuals who figure in the events of 11/22/63 (see also WhoWhatWhy Editor-in-Chief Russ Baker’s Family of Secrets for more on this topic.)"

sorry to burst your bubble, he wasn’t in charge of the parade route….
Special Agent Winston G. Lawson, a member of the White House detail who acted as the advance agent, and Forrest V. Sorrels, special agent in charge of the Dallas office.

now the secret service is part of the plot…sigh.
On November 8, when Lawson was briefed on the itinerary for the trip to Dallas, he was told that 45 minutes had been allotted for a motorcade procession from Love Field to the luncheon site. Lawson was not specifically instructed to select the parade route, but he understood that this was one of his functions. Even before the Trade Mart had been definitely selected, Lawson and Sorrels began to consider the best motorcade route from Love Field to the Trade Mart. On November 14, Lawson and Sorrels attended a meeting at Love Field and on their return to Dallas drove over the route which Sorrels believed best suited for the proposed motorcade. This route, eventually selected for the motorcade from the airport to the Trade Mart, measured 10 miles and could be driven easily within the allotted 45 minutes. From Love Field the route passed through a portion of suburban Dallas, through the downtown area along Main Street and then to the Trade Mart via Stemmons Freeway. For the President's return to Love Field following the luncheon, the agents selected the most direct route, which was approximately 4 miles.
After the selection of the Trade Mart as the luncheon site, Lawson and Sorrels met with Dallas Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry, Assistant Chief Charles Batchelor, Deputy Chief N. T. Fisher, and several other command officers to discuss details of the motorcade and possible routes. The route was further reviewed by Lawson and Sorrels with Assistant Chief Batchelor and members of the local host committee on November 15. The police officials agreed that the route recommended by Sorrels was the proper one and did not express a belief that any other route might be better. On November 18, Sorrels and Lawson drove over the selected route with Batchelor and other police officers, verifying that it could be traversed within 45 minutes. Representatives of the local host committee and the White House staff were advised by the Secret Service of the actual route on the afternoon of November 18.

The route impressed the agents as a natural and desirable one. Sorrels, who had participated in Presidential protection assignments in Dallas since a visit by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1936,as testified that the traditional parade route in Dallas was along Main Street, since the tall buildings along the street gave more people an opportunity to participate. The route chosen from the airport to Main Street was the normal one, except where Harwood Street was selected as the means of access to Main Street in preference to a short stretch of the Central Expressway, which presented a minor safety hazard and could not accommodate spectators as conveniently as Harwood Street. According to Lawson, the chosen route seemed to be the best.



It afforded us wide strees most of the way, because of the buses that were in the motorcade. It afforded us a chance to have alternative routes if something happened on the motorcade route. It was the type of suburban area a good part of the way where the crowds would be able to be controlled for a great distance, and we figured that the largest crowds would be downtown, which they were, and that the wide streets that we would use downtown would be of sufficient width to keep the public out of our way.
Elm Street, parallel to Main Street and one block north, was not used for the main portion of the downtown part of the motorcade because Main Street offered better vantage points for spectators.
To reach the Trade Mart from Main Street the agents decided to use the Stemmons Freeway (Route No. 77), the most direct route. The only practical way for westbound traffic on Main Street to reach the northbound lanes of the Stemmons Freeway is via Elm Street, which Route No. 77 traffic is instructed to follow in this part of the city. Elm Street was to be reached from Main by turning right at Houston, going one block north and then turning left onto Elm. On this last portion of the journey, only 5 minutes from the Trade Mart, the President's motorcade would pass the Texas School Book Depository Building on the northwest corner of Houston and Elm Streets. . . .

The Elm Street approach to the Stemmons Freeway is necessary in order to avoid the traffic hazards which would otherwise exist if right turns were permitted from both Main and Elm into the freeway. To create this traffic pattern, a concrete barrier between Main and Elm Streets presents an obstacle to a right turn from Main across Elm to the access road to Stemmons Freeway and the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike. This concrete barrier extends far enough beyond the access road to make it impracticable for vehicles to turn right from Main directly to the access road. A sign located on this barrier instructs Main Street traffic not to make any turns. In conformity with these arrangements, traffic proceeding west on Main is directed to turn right at Houston in order to reach the Dallas-Fort Worth Turnpike, which has the same access road from Elm Street as does the Stemmons Freeway.

also it appears the idea of a “changed route” is bogus….it’s an ‘error’ one newspaper had because the imagine they printed was too small to include that detailed a route….the larger maps printed of the route showed Elm, as did the majority of newspaper reporting on it.
 
This.

Why, when the motorcade was going through Dealey Plaza, did the path make that right turn off of Main Street then a near-hairpin left turn on Elm Street (forcing the limo to slow down significantly) just to rejoin Main Street at the Stemmons Freeway on the other side of the railroad overpass? Why not just go straight down Main Street through the center of the plaza? It was a needless detour that never should have happened. But how would they be able to shoot Kennedy otherwise? He'd have been too far away if the motorcade had just stayed on Main Street.

Or the reality….
To reach the Trade Mart from Main Street the agents decided to use the Stemmons Freeway (Route No. 77), the most direct route. The only practical way for westbound traffic on Main Street to reach the northbound lanes of the Stemmons Freeway is via Elm Street, which Route No. 77 traffic is instructed to follow in this part of the city. (
 
I’d think the more important question would be how did they get thousands of witnesses, Cops, FBI agents, CIA agents, to all collectively conspire together without ever tipping their hand or having one of them provide concrete evidence of said conspiracy? (Like so so so many conspiratorial plots both successful & failed, before then have all been exposed
IF this happened, there were a couple dozen people who knew the truth, tops. A few high-ranking people pulling strings covers a lot of ground, especially with an organization as covert as this one.

(you’ve also now roped in the Dallas beat cops who arrested him, and got the wallet….this conspiracy grows exponentially by the post)
Two cops each find a wallet, bring them back to the station. One of them disappears. In this scenario, the wallet found at the Tippett scene was most likely purposely dropped by the guy(s) who shot him, not by the Chief of Police.

I mean yeah, if they pulled off the kind of flawless conspiracy you believe in….they’d have absolutely have made up an alias for him out of whole cloth, not one that could be tied back to them.
If you believe in the possibility that there were multiple attempts at the assassination, it wasn't as meticulously planned as you are insinuating. A small group of people plotting this out late summer 1963. There are obviously lots of inconsistencies and mistakes made in this case.
 
by the way, despite Montana's insinuations,

See this is just disingenuous….considering I’ve gone out of my way every single time to point out there’s valid critiques that can be made about the Warren Report.

I’ve just pointed out how embarrassing it is to be so lazy as to ignore it all together….as the conspiracy books collectively tell us to do.

Who benefits the most from us ignoring the Warren Report all together?….conspiracy authors.


pretty much everybody involved with the Warren Commission outside of Earl Warren himself has questioned the committee's setup, methods, and findings. Some interesting points in here:


Even 2 ACTUAL MEMBERS OF THE WARREN COMMISSION were unconvinced: (there were only 7 members)

I’d be disappointed if there wasn’t people questioning and debating the best way to go about things.

given the CIA & Lyndon Johnson were behind all this, seems like a bit of an oversight to not stack the deck with nothing but yes men tho….oopsie.
 
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IF this happened, there were a couple dozen people who knew the truth, tops. A few high-ranking people pulling strings covers a lot of ground, especially with an organization as covert as this one.

Then you’re intentionally lying to yourself….it’s impossible for that to be the case.


Two cops each find a wallet, bring them back to the station. One of them disappears. In this scenario, the wallet found at the Tippett scene was most likely purposely dropped by the guy(s) who shot him, not by the Chief of Police.

There was never two wallets, and film exists of them finding Oswald’s wallet at the Tippet crime scene…

sounds like police lied to imply they found it on him, when he’d left it at the crime scene of Tippets murder….


If you believe in the possibility that there were multiple attempts at the assassination,

that implies I think the attempts are tied together….I haven’t seen any evidence to make me believe that.

one guy is an anti-communist hard core right winger who viewed JFK as soft, and wanted to kill him.

the other was a lone gunman loser who wanted to feel important after he’d been rejected by his wife, his ideology, his society…so upon already failing at one assassination attempt to put his name in the history books….he tries again.

it wasn't as meticulously planned as you are insinuating. A small group of people plotting this out late summer 1963. There are obviously lots of inconsistencies and mistakes made in this case.

Just absolutely nothing concrete to show someone else shot him, or were involved in a conspiracy utilizing Oswald as their hitman.
 
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Presumably Tippets blood on these documents, given it was found at his murder scene.
definitely interesting, and a point in favour of Oswald if it's true. Does go against the official narrative though.

And the idea that the other officers "made up" a story about a crucial piece of evidence in the most famous crime of the century seems rather farfetched and unlikely. Even if it was a spontaneous decision made by a couple of dumb cops, wouldn't it have been corrected immediately once the officers realized the enormity of this lie?

But officially, Dallas police told a different story. The department said it got Oswald s wallet from Oswald himself after his arrest a short time later at the Texas Theatre.
Barrett and Rookstool believe police made that up for the official report
because too many officers handled the crucial piece of evidence at the shooting scene.
They said they took the wallet out of his pocket in the car? That's so much hogwash, Barrett said. That wallet was in [Captain] Westbrook's hand.
 
Or the reality….
I worked at the 1988 G7 Summit in Toronto. Traffic was not an issue when Reagan or Thatcher had to get somewhere. The military, cops and security details simply had a path cleared. I was living in Vancouver near Stanley Park the day Bill Clinton was visiting and decided to take a morning jog on the seawall. They shut down West Georgia Street from Burrard Street all the way to the park, as well as the entirety of Stanley Park and the Lions Gate Bridge in both directions to accommodate him. And in both cases whenever there was a motorcade the rule of thumb was don't blink or you'll miss it. They don't slow down to 10mph ever. The friend of mine who got me the job at the G7 worked on Mila Mulroney's staff and he was in a limo with her once during a motorcade that drove so fast he was sure they were all going to die in a fiery crash.

Presidential motorcades don't follow traffic patterns. They dictate them. Well, unless the Mayor of the city in which the motorcade is taking place happens to be a CIA asset who's brother was recently sacked by the President who's riding in the limo, of course.
 
So your argument for it being a conspiracy….is that 25 years after a President had gotten his head blown off, motorcade protocols had changed?


Jesus. H. Christ. 🤦🏻‍♂️
 
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