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Canes and Centennial Authority Close to Extension

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
A term sheet is in place for a 5 year lease extension through 2029. The economic fallout of the pandemic may delay final approval though or cause it to be re-opened.

“I think it’s a fair deal,” Dundon said. “This gives us the flexibility to focus on Raleigh. We want to stay. This puts us in a position to stay here long term. It gives us all the time we need to focus on a long-term solution.”

 
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jeffbear

Mod Squad
Staff member
It might be a fair deal based on "normal" revenue projections from that hotel and restaurant tax ... but note that actual revenues may* vary.

*"may", this case means "absolutely will"
 

Paulie Walnuts

Well-known member
Just my 2 cents, I think hotels are going to be in trouble for longer time than restaurants. Hotels around here rely on business travel and I think more people are going to move to online meetings. Obviously local people use restaurants too but probably not as much in the future. A good idea that other cities are doing is to close some streets on nights/weekends to let people sit on the street to eat and make spreading out easier. Glenwood South might be able to do that. Seattle is closing some streets permanently. the street closures for us would only be spring to fall.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
Just my 2 cents, I think hotels are going to be in trouble for longer time than restaurants. Hotels around here rely on business travel and I think more people are going to move to online meetings. Obviously local people use restaurants too but probably not as much in the future. A good idea that other cities are doing is to close some streets on nights/weekends to let people sit on the street to eat and make spreading out easier. Glenwood South might be able to do that. Seattle is closing some streets permanently. the street closures for us would only be spring to fall.
I don’t think they can close Glenwood itself. Maybe they can eliminate the outside lanes and extend the sidewalk into that area. It’s basically a 2 lane street from Peace to Hillsborough anyway. But that’s a lot of parking spaces to relocate. But we‘ve been down that road with Fayetteville St. being a pedestrian only. Could the restaurants that opened after the street opened back to vehicles survive if it became pedestrian only again?
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
There will be a lot of work still to do considering the pandemic and its impacts on, well, everything. But this is better news than if no agreement was close. Hopefully all of the nice talk about keeping this franchise in Raleigh continues well past this agreement. It would be nice for this franchise to be around these parts for a long long time.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
There will be a lot of work still to do considering the pandemic and its impacts on, well, everything. But this is better news than if no agreement was close. Hopefully all of the nice talk about keeping this franchise in Raleigh continues well past this agreement. It would be nice for this franchise to be around these parts for a long long time.
Yep, I think the 5 year term is a show of good faith by both parties that they want to extend for a longer term. But rather than get bogged down in things that require input from others, like an entertainment district, get something on paper and move on.
 

ThinIce

Well-known member
Yep, I think the 5 year term is a show of good faith by both parties that they want to extend for a longer term. But rather than get bogged down in things that require input from others, like an entertainment district, get something on paper and move on.
Absolutely right. There's plenty of time for further discussions, but getting this done now is a savvy move - for everyone involved.
 

CanadaCanes

Well-known member
For all the criticism that Dundon gets at times with how he conducts his business, he really has injected new life and energy into the franchise and into the fanbase for the here and now and the future. It's nice to see the Canes are no longer in that bottom tier of teams that constantly are being ragged on.
 

jeffbear

Mod Squad
Staff member
For all the criticism that Dundon gets at times with how he conducts his business, he really has injected new life and energy into the franchise and into the fanbase for the here and now and the future. It's nice to see the Canes are no longer in that bottom tier of teams that constantly are being ragged on.
This ... all day.

I'm not comfortable with a lot of things about Dundon, but it is beyond question that the guy has been a net positive for the franchise. We were absolutely dead in the water for a long, long time ... no more.
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
It’s a done deal. The extension runs through July 1, 2029. It also includes a commitment from the Carolina Hurricanes Foundation to provide cash and in-kind benefits of no less than $1 million per year to youth hockey and/or other charities across the state.

edit: the $1 million Foundation minimum is a huge increase. In 2018-19, the Foundation awarded cash grants of $450k.

 
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Paulie Walnuts

Well-known member
at that point building is 30 years old. They *might* consider moving downtown which will be very different in 9 years. If Nashville can do downtown don't see why Raleigh can't. Bus rapid transit to downtown and other areas will be in place by then. First line opens in 2 years.

Maybe it will even stop the move to Hamilton, Houston, Canada in general, etc. talk.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
Downtown would end my season ticket commitment immediately and permanently. I understand the appeal, and sure, maybe traffic is 100% better in 2030, but, seriously, who are we kidding. It would be a complete nightmare to get there from Apex and Holly Springs and even worse if you are in Morrisville or Durham. I would need to leave at 5PM to have any hopes of making a 7PM game, forget about being able to park, eat somewhere, and then go to the game (aka, much of downtown's appeal). Considering I have a job to tend to, that wouldn't be possible.

If you live in the city? That would be really cool to have the arena downtown. Live in the western or southern suburbs? Not so cool if you have a job.

Anyhow, its great that there was this much commitment to ensuring a lease is in place for the next decade. That is definitely great news all around. I also like Dundon stating that this buys time to assess the options as this extended lease ends....be it a new arena or major renovations. Now he probably is a great poker player, but you don't get any negative vibes at all about the Canes being in this area well into the future. That is something to celebrate for sure.
 
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Paulie Walnuts

Well-known member
Bus rapid transit here : https://raleighnc.gov/business/content/PlanDev/Articles/TransPlan/BRT.html

Most likely they would have parking lots you can park at and catch the bus. Also the 540 loop would be a lot bigger then, extending from Apex to Garner. That takes traffic off other roads. ( and yes I know it's toll .) Some people go from work directly to the game. I know that's not ideal but it happens. Almost all the new downtown buildings are made for people with higher incomes who can afford Canes tickets.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
We will see. By 2029 I expect that Wake county will have expanded from the 1.11 million people here today to almost 1.4-1.5 million (2.2-2.5% annual growth rates, which are in line with what we've seen in the past few years).

They can build all the rapid transit buses they want to and finish the 540 loop (I'm a regular user, especially if I can't work from home, tolls are worth every penny). I still think traffic will be as bad (or worse) by 2029.
 

Paulie Walnuts

Well-known member
Parking decks will make NCSU fans heads explode. Some of them get drunk before the game and drink more at halftime. If the game is out of reach some don't go back for the 2nd half. Also Dundon may not be the owner then but he's young enough I don't think he would sell unless he really needed money.
 

cmaleski2

Well-known member
I enjoyed De Cock's side article on how important those Carter Finley parking spots are to future development of the arena into an entertainment district. At least Boo Corrigan is open to discussing what the future could look like with a new vision for the land surrounding the arena and Carter Finley stadium.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article243050091.html
The non-college football fan in me can't fathom how the tailgating/parking experience for 7-8 NC State home football games trumps the massive economic and entertainment possibilities for that parking area in terms of hotels, restaurants, bars, etc. Yeah, I get it, college football rules the country and NC State football is about tailgating as much or more than the games. Bojangles needs NC State tailgating.

But seriously?!?!? We are not going to be able to use any of that space because of the critical need to be able to tailgate 7 or 8 times a year? (Says the UCONN alum who never really gave a crap about college football).
 

andyt

Canes Moderator
Staff member
Bus rapid transit here : https://raleighnc.gov/business/content/PlanDev/Articles/TransPlan/BRT.html

Most likely they would have parking lots you can park at and catch the bus. Also the 540 loop would be a lot bigger then, extending from Apex to Garner. That takes traffic off other roads. ( and yes I know it's toll .) Some people go from work directly to the game. I know that's not ideal but it happens. Almost all the new downtown buildings are made for people with higher incomes who can afford Canes tickets.
Consider the existing downtown Raleigh footprint. I’m talking about the area bounded by Glenwood (including an imaginary line south to MLK) Peace, Person and MLK. Anything outside that boundary is either residential or not really downtown. You need the building, parking and proximity to a transportation hub. Keep in mind that the state kicked in $22 million of the original and NC State had an in-kind land donation for the existing arena. That means the building has to be almost entirely self-financed, and will be competing with PNC Arena for hospitality tax revenue, unless NC State decides to move too. Drop it on Moore Square/City Market? Malik‘s original location for the soccer stadium? That ran into problems in the legislature. Any place that has a state government building is going to be a problem. Downtown infrastructure is now, and probably will be an issue in the future.
 

CanadaCanes

Well-known member
The non-college football fan in me can't fathom how the tailgating/parking experience for 7-8 NC State home football games trumps the massive economic and entertainment possibilities for that parking area in terms of hotels, restaurants, bars, etc. Yeah, I get it, college football rules the country and NC State football is about tailgating as much or more than the games. Bojangles needs NC State tailgating.

But seriously?!?!? We are not going to be able to use any of that space because of tailgating 7 or 8 times a year? (Says the UCONN alum who never really gave a crap about college football).
I agree, it is hard to understand justifying that when you look at the possibilities for the adjacent land opportunities to make that entire arena area into a one stop destination for game days no matter what the sport or event may be at PNC or Carter Finley...but I'm sure Jeffbear can weigh in on this sensitive matter much more than most of us. I always loved what Glendale, Arizona did with their entertainment and arena complex to make it into a massive economic and entertainment spot, a meal before the game, a few drinks after the game or just a great vibe and atmosphere to walk around and enjoy the shopping and amenities made the complex complete.
 
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