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OT: American Politics

zeke said:
My side thinks the word and practice should be abolished, actually.

though my side, admittedly, consists of just me.
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my god. does this ever capture PERFECTLY the zeitgeist (thats for you, jcy) of modern morality.

-nothing is sacred
-everything is relative
-i stand for nothing
-except for me
 
JaysCyYoung said:
No, he's the son of God. The Trinity is a weird Catholic concept.
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protestant bastard.

this "weird catholic concept" predates your presbyterianism by at least 1000 years, and was settled on by far, far, far more rigorous academic and theological debate than probably anything you could pull out of protestant doctrine.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
you're avoiding the point entirely. you aren't "tolerant" if you feel you can crudely insult a major religion's core beliefs. being "tolerant" of modern secular society's (apparently) greatest religion, acceptance of gay marriage, does not absolve you of being grossly intolerant of other people.
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being tolerant necessarily means being disgusted with the intolerant.

I don't have to tolerate nazis, pedophiles, racists, bigots, or anyone else in order for me to be a tolerant person.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
my god. does this ever capture PERFECTLY the zeitgeist (thats for you, jcy) of modern morality.

-nothing is sacred
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correct.

-everything is relative
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correct.

-i stand for nothing
-except for me
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incorrect. I stand for individual responsibility and thoughtfulness, and carrying the burden of assessing morality on our infinite variety of experiences on an individual basis, like an adult should....and against the simplitistic, paternalistic, hamfisted cookie cutter rule-based herd morality of "doing what daddy says" used by the ignorant and lazy to avoid shouldering this burden.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
if i gave you a theology lesson to explain to you why you're wrong here, you'd probably be bored and slam me for being a religious fanatic. for starters, recite "hail mary" to yourself a couple of times to see why you're wrong. the virgin mary is the "mother of god".
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No she's not.

Jesus is not God. He's the son of God and I already embarrassed you in front of the entire forum with my theological ass kicking of you on Augustine that you conveniently ignored several pages back.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
No she's not.

Jesus is not God. He's the son of God and I already embarrassed you in front of the entire forum with my theological ass kicking of you on Augustine that you conveniently ignored several pages back.
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jcy, i'm not getting into this with you. you're protestant, so you can believe what you believe about this and thats fine. i'm catholic. as a catholic i believe in the holy trinity. as catholics we believe that the virgin mary is the mother of god.

i'm going to leave it at that and leave it to you to "embarass" yourself or not by trying to tell me that my understanding of my own religion is wrong.
 
Being tolerant doesn't mean you have to tolerate intolerance.

In fact, a tolerant person should fight against intolerance, obviously.

Your little logic wordgame is stupid.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
oh boy. are you serious with this $hit?! here's lefty "tolerance" on display again.

one of the foundational, most sacred tenets of the catholic church, the holy trinity, is "polytheism" and "hyphenated god crap" according to you. pathetic. i defy you to go into a madrassa and call one of their most sacred religious beliefs "__________ god crap".
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Yup. It's fake Christianity and borders on idol worship with its veneration of non-God figures. And I'll say whatever I want about the depraved, corrupt Catholic Church that represents the worst of organized religion.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
you're avoiding the point entirely. you aren't "tolerant" if you feel you can crudely insult a major religion's core beliefs. being "tolerant" of modern secular society's (apparently) greatest religion, acceptance of gay marriage, does not absolve you of being grossly intolerant of other people.
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And you continue to conveniently ignore the point.

I must say, I'm quite impressed, you've been very politician-esque throughout this whole debate. You've identified your talking points (sociological this, family unit that), stuck to them, avoided debating anything that runs counter to the narrative you're trying to impose on this issue, and then thrown in some wholly irrelevant side material (society's moral decay) to further distract and distort.

Well played.

But that fact still remains, on the issue of gay marriage, please explain how supporting some people (straight people) being entitled to rights denied others (gays) because of their sexuality, is not intolerant.
 
also kb, you really don't do yourself any favours when you lump everyone who has a different view than you into one group...

for example, Jays is clearly not a "lefty"...he's on record having pretty serious disagreements with a number of posters (myself included) where he's clearly on the 'right' on issues.

also, accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being intolerant, pretty much solely because they disagree with you...again, as you would like to say, "non sequitur" (before you lecture me on improperly using the term, it's in mockery of your use of it)

I know building a common boogeyman and attributing ridiculous views to it makes it easier for you to argue against everyone who disagrees with you, but doesn't do a ton to support your ideas.
 
theREALkoreaboy said:
this. i would have had a LOT more respect for hopeychange if he would have just come out right away in 2008 and said what we all figured he really believed on this issue- that he was for gay marriage. to duck the question and then come out at this stage now after he was basically "outed" by his VP on the issue is weaselly, and confirms what most of us knew all along about him- he isn't a principled leader.
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he didn't duck it in 2008, he said he was for a man and woman marriage only. He probably didn't have alot of gay people in his life back then. Things change and once you have worked with them, have them in your lives, and become more educated, it would certainly help you change your mind. It did for me. But that was many many years ago. He also said he planned on making this a statement before the convention, but just not this soon. Yes, Biden helped that along. So what. You have to know it took guts to do it as there are a lot of people dead set against it that may have voted for him and now they won't.
 
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