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NCFC MLS bid/General Soccer Bizzo

yes I saw that MLS failed in Miami after only 6 seasons in 2002, they were only drawing 11k per game. But that doesn't guarantee they will fail this time . Soccer is more popular now than in 2002. And South Florida has a good growth rate.

Even if a team says they are coming not sure the Raleigh and Wake will put up stadium money. And no way do I see the state providing funding
 
With the vast amount of money behind the folks that tried to land an MLS franchise in Detroit, I'm quite surprised that they did not get awarded one.
 
NoMich said:
With the vast amount of money behind the folks that tried to land an MLS franchise in Detroit, I'm quite surprised that they did not get awarded one.
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To put it nicely it's a rust belt city/area that is losing population. I would be surprised if they got a team. The city itself has lost 50% of their population since 1970. And yes I know they have plenty of people in the suburbs. I don't think of Detroit as a big soccer area, is soccer big there?
 
I'm from Michigan and have lots of friends that live in the Detroit area, so yeah, I know all about the population situation in the Detroit metro area. I still stand by my previous statement that of disbelief that a group of people with a ton of money (no matter where they live) got turned down by the MLS.
 
Well money does not mean a lot if they don't like the market for ticket sales and TV ratings.

I'm also surprised St. Louis got a team - they have also lost 50% of their city population since 1970. That is sort of a rust belt city. But they don't have the NFL or NBA and Detroit has all 4 major sports so there is more competition for entertainment dollars. Indy is a bit surprising but they only have NFL and NBA. The rest of the new teams are sunbelt or western: Miami, San Diego,Sacramento, Nashville and Austin.
 
Paulie Walnuts said:
Well money does not mean a lot if they don't like the market for ticket sales and TV ratings.

I'm also surprised St. Louis got a team - they have also lost 50% of their city population since 1970. That is sort of a rust belt city. But they don't have the NFL or NBA and Detroit has all 4 major sports so there is more competition for entertainment dollars. Indy is a bit surprising but they only have NFL and NBA. The rest of the new teams are sunbelt or western: Miami, San Diego,Sacramento, Nashville and Austin.
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St. Louis is one of the historical hotbeds of soccer in the US. Once they got a group behind the bid with enough money and a stadium plan, there was no way they weren’t getting a franchise. Indianapolis isn’t getting a MLS team but they’re well positioned if the league goes beyond 30 teams; they have plans and financing for a 20,000 stadium in place. They also had the 2nd highest attendance in the USL, more than double what NCFC drew. Detroit isn’t really under consideration anymore, they don’t have a stadium plan. Their proposal was to use Ford Field, instead of building a soccer specific stadium.
 
I think MLS not liking Detroit's stadium plan may have been a nice way for them to say no rather than other reasons. Just my 2 cents.
 
MLS's issue with Detroit has to do with numbers ... and not the kind with dollar signs. The market itself is the problem. The support for the USL side is great, the financial backing is great and if this was 1980, then expansion to Detroit would be a no-brainer. It's not though. And even though the city might be through the worst of it's decline, it's still a city in decline.
 
Paulie Walnuts said:
yes I saw that MLS failed in Miami after only 6 seasons in 2002, they were only drawing 11k per game. But that doesn't guarantee they will fail this time . Soccer is more popular now than in 2002. And South Florida has a good growth rate.

Even if a team says they are coming not sure the Raleigh and Wake will put up stadium money. And no way do I see the state providing funding
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If they don't get that stadium actually built, then they'll fail again ... for the same reasons. And that stadium deal is less than 100% ... despite all the sunshine and rainbows the ownership's PR people have been throwing around. The are environmental land use problems, and I'm still not convinced on the financing. If they try to play three card monte and make it long term in the suburbs ... again ... it's going to go the same way it goes for everybody else who tries that stunt in Miami that isn't an NFL team. Badly.

I'm telling ya ... anybody who missed on this round of expansion should keep their powder dry. MLS's history is littered with dumb franchise awards and promises that never got kept. The chances of every single one of these new franchises actually working are slim to none. Miami seems shady, and Austin's owner is slime. Cincinnati was a bad idea and their ownership is pretty clueless. MLS has done a slightly better job of vetting owners than the NHL, but that ain't saying much. It's still an issue.
 
I think y'all are getting hung up on the word "Detroit." So, let's call it "Southeast Michigan," with it's population of a bit over 4 million, and is still in the top 15 in the US with regard to local economies. By reference, Raleigh is just outside of the top 40 in local economies in the US.

But whatever, the last thing that the area needs is yet another shitty local sporting franchise. grumble grumble, stupid Lions
 
Could Kane and the others finance the stadium partly with debt? It would be a big risk for banks but Kane has such a track record of success he might be able to do it. It's much more risky project than his typical office towers and shopping centers.
 
NoMich said:
I think y'all are getting hung up on the word "Detroit." So, let's call it "Southeast Michigan," with it's population of a bit over 4 million, and is still in the top 15 in the US with regard to local economies. By reference, Raleigh is just outside of the top 40 in local economies in the US.

But whatever, the last thing that the area needs is yet another shitty local sporting franchise. grumble grumble, stupid Lions
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Yeah ... I'm not getting hung up on that at all. The population and GDP of the whole region has been shrinking to stagnuts. I've got family up there so I harbor none of the usual ill will for the region. It is what it is. And MLS has proven it can work in much smaller markets ... if there's broad community and corporate support and a stable, well financed ownership group with the right facility plan. Ford Field is not that plan and the next steps seem ... let's call it unlikely.

Again though ... hang tight. At least one of these new markets will flame out and everybody who got left out will be back in play eventually. It is the way.
 
Paulie Walnuts said:
Could Kane and the others finance the stadium partly with debt? It would be a big risk for banks but Kane has such a track record of success he might be able to do it. It's much more risky project than his typical office towers and shopping centers.
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It's my understanding that the rest of the planned development is likely to go forward whether they get public participation for the stadium or not. But if they don't get some commitment for funding from that entertainment and rec tax fund, then there won't be a stadium and the project will re-size accordingly.
 
jeffbear said:
It's my understanding that the rest of the planned development is likely to go forward whether they get public participation for the stadium or not. But if they don't get some commitment for funding from that entertainment and rec tax fund, then there won't be a stadium and the project will re-size accordingly.
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I don't see any reason why it wouldn’t, especially with part of the land in an opportunity zone. I don’t think there is any doubt that development on that side of town isn’t needed. If he follows the same path as he did in North Hills, building in phases as the land came available, it should work.
 
andyt said:
I don't see any reason why it wouldn’t, especially with part of the land in an opportunity zone. I don’t think there is any doubt that development on that side of town isn’t needed. If he follows the same path as he did in North Hills, building in phases as the land came available, it should work.
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Yeah ... I'm hearing that there are two different master plans for the development. One with the stadium and one without. I'm sure it's do-able, especially with the tax incentives. That side of downtown is vastly easier to build out than the north side. Less stuff to clear out, less residential in general and a lot less complications.
 
There is certainly a Plan A and a Plan B (at minimum) that includes the stadium option or not. Combination of Kane's profits from other successful ventures and the tax advantages of the Opportunity Zone would green light something happening there. Has interchange access, proximity to Dix Park, and the City is gung-ho for something (anything!) happening there. They've taken down two-thirds of the potential project from the two easy Sellers and will start picking off the edges for better access and visibility as the project proceeds.

Even if the stadium is ultimately a complete non-starter, the project would not rely upon it to be a destination. That's just icing on the cake and a nice symbiotic use for everything else they will have planned for that location. But not having it is certainly not a deal killer.
 
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