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Around the League 2019-2026 Edition

I do think though that Zeke completely appreciates how much real estate he's getting to live in, completely rent-free.
 
leaffan2005 said:
I'm honestly shocked this a real argument.

"Wins are a noisy stat". Truly remarkable stuff.
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This comes back to something I mentioned earlier in the off-season. For me, the value of advanced stats is purely whether or not they give teams another way to reliably guide them towards on-ice success.

For someone who’s gone completely off the deep end like zeke, they’re a wholesale replacement for success. The XGF% contest is more important to him than real goals or actually winning games.
 
LeafGm said:
This comes back to something I mentioned earlier in the off-season. For me, the value of advanced stats is purely whether or not they give teams another way to reliably guide them towards on-ice success.

For someone who’s gone completely off the deep end like zeke, they’re a wholesale replacement for success. The XGF% contest is more important to him than real goals or actually winning games.
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Yeah this is what I have been trying to tell people here for a while.
 
I think the argument is that zeke believes that xgf is a better predictor of future wins than wins. I don't think he prefers winning the xgf battle over the actual game. I'm assuming he would prefer to win actual games. I think. But maybe I'm being too kind.
 
But regardless he's a guy that takes the extreme opinion on every topic. In a season where they lost to Columbus in a fairly even playoff series and lost to a zamboni driver he believes they took a step forward. Mind you, this is a year after they arguably deserved to beat Boston in a playoff series.

His argument for the zamboni driver game was of course extremist and that people overreacted so that means there's absolutely no issues. As always the truth is in the middle ground. No, they shouldn't trade everyone, but yes it was absolutely a red flag. Losing to Columbus was the same thing. No, they shouldn't blow it up, but yes it kinda shows that they're not quite elite. Which is fine.
 
MindzEye said:
I'm not even bothering to try to track the depth of the argument, but there is a point in there somewhere.

Literally no one who isn't satisfied by being a tough out in the 1st round would be satisfied by winning that game 7 and then getting swept in the 2nd round (which I believe was the initial example he used that set off this shitshow). Sneaking through that one game only to get whomped in the 2nd round means as close to nothing as something can mean.
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Where this started was zeke trying to throw shade at the Islanders’ playoff success by pointing out that they’ve been swept by Carolina, and bragging that in comparison, these Leafs have never been swept.
 
CH1 said:
Yeah, they are a reason to be optimistic about the future....
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I'm just glad he stopped saying the stock market was going sideways after it exploded from March lows. That took way too long but he finally stopped.
 
MindzEye said:
Well, because it is.
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Yeah I agree. I was actually defending zeke there. There's two different arguments going on. Zeke is talking about what he believes is better for the team and others are talking about simply getting to enjoy their team win a series and believe that zeke just prefers to win the xgf battle. Which I don't think is the case, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
Advanced team stats are useful in pointing out underlying trends (up or down) that have not yet materialized in the stats that matter (wins/losses)
 
CH1 said:
Advanced team stats are useful in pointing out underlying trends (up or down) that have not yet materialized in the stats that matter (wins/losses)
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Exactly and I think this is what zeke is arguing. Which is fine. I get it. But the thing is, the leafs advanced stats don't really prove they're elite. They're an average+ team. 12th ranked xgf% in the NHL this past season. Good team but it's a team that hasn't separated itself from the tier 2/3 teams.
 
CH1 said:
Advanced team stats are useful in pointing out underlying trends (up or down) that have not yet materialized in the stats that matter (wins/losses)
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I think they're also extremely useful in isolating the performance of the skaters from the performance of the goalies. The amount of bad team building decisions that has been made around the league due to "bad defence" being blamed for trash goaltending is incredible.

We once upon a time traded Pavel Kubina for Garnet fucking Exelby because Vesa Toskala couldn't stop a fucking beachball and clearly our blueline was the reason he couldn't.

Isolating skater performance from goalie performance is maybe the single most important point of evaluation there is. It's extremely difficult to make informed player personnel choices without having some grasp of isolated performance.
 
MindzEye said:
I think they're also extremely useful in isolating the performance of the skaters from the performance of the goalies. The amount of bad team building decisions that has been made around the league due to "bad defence" being blamed for trash goaltending is incredible.

We once upon a time traded Pavel Kubina for Garnet fucking Exelby because Vesa Toskala couldn't stop a fucking beachball and clearly our blueline was the reason he couldn't.

Isolating skater performance from goalie performance is maybe the single most important point of evaluation there is. It's extremely difficult to make informed player personnel choices without having some grasp of isolated performance.
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I don’t recall that being the reason for that trade. There was never any talk of Kubina being bad defensively. There was some other dumb reason they did that one.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I don’t recall that being the reason for that trade. There was never any talk of Kubina being bad defensively. There was some other dumb reason they did that one.
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We needed to get tougher, better defensively, culture change, yadda yadda was the reason.
 
CH1 said:
Wasn’t that the Courtnall-Kordic trade?
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Yes. Same rationale. It has been the siren song of bad trades in Toronto for generations. Get tougher to play against, change the culture, etc, etc.

This is the first time anyone has built a team in Toronto on the philsophical idea of: "Hey...do you guys think we should just try to be better at hockey than everyone else?"

and there's a fucking fan and media revolt before any of the kids are even 25 yrs old.
 
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