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OT: World Politics

MindzEye said:
Eh, the Japanese surrendered more because Russia declared war on them than because their two cities got esssploded.

Just like the Russians don't like to talk about lend-lease largely being the reason they beat the Nazi's, the Americans don't like to talk about the Japanese capitulating largely because the Russians joined the pacific war.
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Oh maybe. iirc Russian declared war right between the first and second bomb.

And didn't japan think a third bomb was coming? Could just be the "West" version of what happened that we learned in grade school.
 
worm said:
And didn't japan think a third bomb was coming? Could just be the "West" version of what happened that we learned in grade school.
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iirc, Japan had bad intel that the US had a significant stockpile of bombs but their decision makers were deadlocked on surrender until the Russians invaded China/Manchuria. The thinking before Russia getting involved was that the Japanese had a few months before the US could potentially invade the Japanese mainland, but Russia could be there from the north within a week or so. Basically, Japan was willing to risk getting nuked again by the US to play wait and see rather than surrender until the immediate threat of Russian invasion of the mainland pushed them over the edge.

But yes, we're taught in school that getting nuked twice did it. I think that makes for a clean segue into the atomic age/cold war in our history textbooks but in reality, the conventional bombing of Tokyo killed more people, did more damage, created over a million homeless, etc.

Tokyo

09ww11-firebombing-01-mediumSquareAt3X.jpg



Nagasaki

r


What's the difference?
 
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axlsalinger said:
This is fucking madness. This regime has to go.

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The Revolutionary Guard is at the heart of the matter. They evolved from protecting the mullahs, with the commensurate capacity for violence, to being the entrenched political and economic force in Iran. In a zero sum political culture, they will respond with brutality.

If there is change, I fear it will be very violent.
 
lecoqsportif said:
The Revolutionary Guard is at the heart of the matter. They evolved from protecting the mullahs, with the commensurate capacity for violence, to being the entrenched political and economic force in Iran. In a zero sum political culture, they will respond with brutality.

If there is change, I fear it will be very violent.
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With the revolutionary guard they need to be met with their own language. They will need to be destroyed with an overwhelming amount of violence.
 
MindzEye said:
Eh, the Japanese surrendered more because Russia declared war on them than because their two cities got esssploded.

Just like the Russians don't like to talk about lend-lease largely being the reason they beat the Nazi's, the Americans don't like to talk about the Japanese capitulating largely because the Russians joined the pacific war.
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No, it was the Russians joining the Pacific war that prompted the US to use nukes and force the Japanese to surrender before the USSR could become a factor (and could start making territorial demands) The US wanted Japan for itself and nuking them was the quickest way to get there.

As for the Russians the main reason they beat the Germans was because they were willing to bleed more and had the human capacity to bleed more than the Germans. Unlike Germany, they weren't fighting a two front war (3 fronts, really, because they were trying to hold back the Allies in both France and Italy as well as the Soviets in the East) Also, Stalin had no qualms about sacrificing bodies to the meat grinder. Hitler was little different, but German generals were more likely to ignore insane orders than Soviet generals were. The Germans also didn't shoot their own soldiers if they retreated. In short, Hitler may have ordered that his forces fight to the last man but Stalin made sure that his forces fought to the last man. He'd have you shot just for getting captured. Most liberated Russian prisoners wound up being shot or in gulags as suspected spies.

Hitler was Zuckerberg. Stalin was Elon ("hardcore")
 
MindzEye said:
iirc, Japan had bad intel that the US had a significant stockpile of bombs but their decision makers were deadlocked on surrender until the Russians invaded China/Manchuria. The thinking before Russia getting involved was that the Japanese had a few months before the US could potentially invade the Japanese mainland, but Russia could be there from the north within a week or so. Basically, Japan was willing to risk getting nuked again by the US to play wait and see rather than surrender until the immediate threat of Russian invasion of the mainland pushed them over the edge.

But yes, we're taught in school that getting nuked twice did it. I think that makes for a clean segue into the atomic age/cold war in our history textbooks but in reality, the conventional bombing of Tokyo killed more people, did more damage, created over a million homeless, etc.

Tokyo

09ww11-firebombing-01-mediumSquareAt3X.jpg



Nagasaki

r


What's the difference?
Click to expand...
If the US had nuked Tokyo instead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki they'd have inflicted as much if not more damage than the firebombing did. But of course, after that firebombing there wasn't much left of Toyko to bomb so they had to pick targets that were still standing.
 
lecoqsportif said:
The Revolutionary Guard is at the heart of the matter. They evolved from protecting the mullahs, with the commensurate capacity for violence, to being the entrenched political and economic force in Iran. In a zero sum political culture, they will respond with brutality.

If there is change, I fear it will be very violent.
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Same tactics as the Shah's CIA trained secret police used to employ.
 
MindzEye said:
iirc, Japan had bad intel that the US had a significant stockpile of bombs but their decision makers were deadlocked on surrender until the Russians invaded China/Manchuria. The thinking before Russia getting involved was that the Japanese had a few months before the US could potentially invade the Japanese mainland, but Russia could be there from the north within a week or so. Basically, Japan was willing to risk getting nuked again by the US to play wait and see rather than surrender until the immediate threat of Russian invasion of the mainland pushed them over the edge.

But yes, we're taught in school that getting nuked twice did it. I think that makes for a clean segue into the atomic age/cold war in our history textbooks but in reality, the conventional bombing of Tokyo killed more people, did more damage, created over a million homeless, etc.

Tokyo

09ww11-firebombing-01-mediumSquareAt3X.jpg



Nagasaki

r


What's the difference?
Click to expand...
One created tentacle porn.
 
Apparently Russia is planning evacuating of Armyansk in Crimea. It's basically the land bridge between Crimea and Ukraine. The rumour is that Ukraine's arty party is going well and multiple secured crossings of the Dnipro are expected.
 
MindzEye said:
Apparently Russia is planning evacuating of Armyansk in Crimea. It's basically the land bridge between Crimea and Ukraine. The rumour is that Ukraine's arty party is going well and multiple secured crossings of the Dnipro are expected.
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and the current main route from Crimea to Kherson is within HIMARs range now. think this also has something to do with it.

also, apparently the road that currently exists in Armyansk is insufficient for military purposes so they need to soup it up. from the twitter team...
 
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