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OT: Health and Nutrition

10 more years of joyless life
The patient can decide if they're so miserable on the drugs that they'd rather be obese. And then stop taking it. That's their decision.


Though preliminary studies do show no link of increased depression or mood disorders from taking the drug. In fact, there's some early evidence that not being controlled by food anymore is IMPROVING people's mental health, not worsening it.
 
My knowledge is limited on the subject, and the experts don't even know exactly what's going on, but on a basic level, Ozempic stimulates a hormone called glucagon-like peptide-1 (ie. GLP-1) that already occurs naturally in the body to regulate blood sugar and hunger signals. Turns out this ends up helping regulate dopamine as well, which is clear in the data, but we don't know exactly how. There's definitely the possibility there will be negative long-term effects, but we don't know for sure, and they have been working on these drugs and testing since the 90s. So if it were really dangerous we'd likely have some idea by now.

It does seem pretty clear that the benefits from weight loss will almost certainly outweigh any negative aspects. And it helps regulate dopamine, not destroy it. And from what I know, these effects wear off when people stop taking the drug. People should not stay on these drugs indefinitely.
 
My knowledge is limited on the subject, and the experts don't even know exactly what's going on, but on a basic level, Ozempic stimulates a hormone called glucagon-like peptide-1 (ie. GLP-1) that already occurs naturally in the body to regulate blood sugar and hunger signals. Turns out this ends up helping regulate dopamine as well, which is clear in the data, but we don't know exactly how. There's definitely the possibility there will be negative long-term effects, but we don't know for sure, and they have been working on these drugs and testing since the 90s. So if it were really dangerous we'd likely have some idea by now.

It does seem pretty clear that the benefits from weight loss will almost certainly outweigh any negative aspects. And it helps regulate dopamine, not destroy it. And from what I know, these effects wear off when people stop taking the drug. People should not stay on these drugs indefinitely.
The last bit may be changing as new evidence emerges, but yeah for now it's best to either reduce the dosage to the minimum once you're at a healthy weight or get off and try to maintain. The one thing that the science is pretty clear on is that the reward far outweighs the risk, even if on them for a prolonged period (prolonged usage has been studied extensively and we've still yet to find severe negative long-term effects, though obviously you can't guarantee 100% safety).
 
Doesn't it kinda help to (at least try to) develop healthy habits while taking this stuff?

That's more or less it's underlying core benefit. You should, in theory be working on and rewiring some of those dopamine response pathways in your brain while on it so that when you're off of it you just don't start mainlining milk chocolate and binge watching porn while making prop bets on 4th division brazilian women's football.

Which I guess is why Zeke is against it and thinks that would be a joyless life.
 
Doesn't it kinda help to (at least try to) develop healthy habits while taking this stuff?
That's part of the treatment yes. This becomes far easier without the food noise that has plagued these people.

But you'll want to work out, eat a lot of protein, maintain slower weight loss and shit like that because otherwise you'll have loose skin and stuff and just gain the weight back if you ever go off the drug. But it's probably better to just stay on the drug if you're gonna be lazy and not put in the work to maintain good health.
 
Doesn't it kinda help to (at least try to) develop healthy habits while taking this stuff?
counterpoint: people are morons

but yes, it does seem to be part of the process, ie. people love not spending all day thinking about food or gambling.

The effectiveness does wear off over time though, so like anything else, if a person loses a bunch of weight, goes off the drug, then returns to the exact same lifestyle they had before, eventually they will gain back all the weight and lose all of the benefits. I think a lot of people recognize this though, so hopefully getting that reset leads to better results going forward.
 
That's more or less it's underlying core benefit. You should, in theory be working on and rewiring some of those dopamine response pathways in your brain while on it so that when you're off of it you just don't start mainlining milk chocolate and binge watching porn while making prop bets on 4th division brazilian women's football.

Which I guess is why Zeke is against it and thinks that would be a joyless life.
Okie-doke. 😊
 
From Gemini:

While there is no specific clinical evidence that GLP-1 drugs can cure an "irrational hatred" of potatoes, these medications significantly alter how the brain and body process food-related cues, which can lead to shifts in food preferences and aversions.

Effects on Food Perception and Aversion
  • Sensory Recalibration: GLP-1 drugs can cause a "deeper recalibration" of how flavor is registered, sometimes leading to a complete loss of interest in once-beloved foods or, conversely, making previously unappealing healthy foods taste better.
  • Quieting "Food Noise": These medications reduce intrusive thoughts about food by influencing brain circuits related to appetite, reward, and motivation.
  • Taste Changes: Users frequently report altered taste sensations (dysgeusia), such as food tasting more metallic, too intense (especially sweet or salty), or simply "odd".
  • Reduced Reward Response: By dampening the brain's reward system, GLP-1s can make the anticipation of eating certain foods less intense.

Potential Impact on Food Aversions
  • Shifting Preferences: Many users report major changes in preferences, often moving away from fatty, fried, or ultra-processed foods toward "savory umami" or simpler flavors.
  • Gender Differences: Some research suggests women may be more likely than men to experience a change in taste preferences while on these drugs.
  • Psychological Limits: While these drugs impact the physiological and neurological drive to eat, they do not typically address deep-seated psychological drivers of eating behaviors or specific trauma-related food phobias.
If your "hatred" is purely sensory—based on the taste or texture of potatoes—the medication's ability to rewire your palate might make them more tolerable. However, if the aversion is deeply psychological or rooted in a specific phobia, the drug's effect on appetite may not be enough to overcome it without additional behavioral therapy.
 
From Gemini:

While there is no specific clinical evidence that GLP-1 drugs can cure an "irrational hatred" of potatoes, these medications significantly alter how the brain and body process food-related cues, which can lead to shifts in food preferences and aversions.

Effects on Food Perception and Aversion
  • Sensory Recalibration: GLP-1 drugs can cause a "deeper recalibration" of how flavor is registered, sometimes leading to a complete loss of interest in once-beloved foods or, conversely, making previously unappealing healthy foods taste better.
  • Quieting "Food Noise": These medications reduce intrusive thoughts about food by influencing brain circuits related to appetite, reward, and motivation.
  • Taste Changes: Users frequently report altered taste sensations (dysgeusia), such as food tasting more metallic, too intense (especially sweet or salty), or simply "odd".
  • Reduced Reward Response: By dampening the brain's reward system, GLP-1s can make the anticipation of eating certain foods less intense.

Potential Impact on Food Aversions
  • Shifting Preferences: Many users report major changes in preferences, often moving away from fatty, fried, or ultra-processed foods toward "savory umami" or simpler flavors.
  • Gender Differences: Some research suggests women may be more likely than men to experience a change in taste preferences while on these drugs.
  • Psychological Limits: While these drugs impact the physiological and neurological drive to eat, they do not typically address deep-seated psychological drivers of eating behaviors or specific trauma-related food phobias.
If your "hatred" is purely sensory—based on the taste or texture of potatoes—the medication's ability to rewire your palate might make them more tolerable. However, if the aversion is deeply psychological or rooted in a specific phobia, the drug's effect on appetite may not be enough to overcome it without additional behavioral therapy.
Note to Zeke: if these impacts sound bad to you, please be reassured that this drug is not mandatory. You can choose to not take anything and raw dog life. #freedum
 
That's part of the treatment yes. This becomes far easier without the food noise that has plagued these people.

But you'll want to work out, eat a lot of protein, maintain slower weight loss and shit like that because otherwise you'll have loose skin and stuff and just gain the weight back if you ever go off the drug. But it's probably better to just stay on the drug if you're gonna be lazy and not put in the work to maintain good health.
I'm just really distrustful of a vast array of "miracle" drugs. Not saying some really don't have their usefuls; just very leery of most. One of the hardest things I did while visiting Up North for six months, was not drink alcohol. At all. Y'all have some good stuff, so it was pretty fucking hard, but I'd already been off of it for a year, so that helped. Anyway, lost some weight, BP improved ridiculously, plus I added some (more) healthy food and food prep to my dailies, easy to do shopping in SF's Mish and T.O.'s Chinatown. Bit more challenging here in BLC, but not impossible. And I do drink alcohol again - about 2 beers and 2 shots a month. Maybe. I just refuse to get stuck needing to go onto some goddam drug if I can help it, but yay for helpful stuff anyway.
 
I'm just really distrustful of a vast array of "miracle" drugs. Not saying some really don't have their usefuls; just very leery of most. One of the hardest things I did while visiting Up North for six months, was not drink alcohol. At all. Y'all have some good stuff, so it was pretty fucking hard, but I'd already been off of it for a year, so that helped. Anyway, lost some weight, BP improved ridiculously, plus I added some (more) healthy food and food prep to my dailies, easy to do shopping in SF's Mish and T.O.'s Chinatown. Bit more challenging here in BLC, but not impossible. And I do drink alcohol again - about 2 beers and 2 shots a month. Maybe. I just refuse to get stuck needing to go onto some goddam drug if I can help it, but yay for helpful stuff anyway.
I mean I'm not really over-selling them or anything. The drug does what it intends to do at a rate that has never been seen before, with relatively mild side effects. If you go on them for a year, lose a bunch of weight, go off them and not change your lifestyle at all then yeah, you'll gain the weight back. It's not magic unless you take them for life. Which many people will - there will likely be pills coming to the market soon with a small maintenance dose that is enough for most people to maintain for life.

Do I want to avoid covid forever and not have to risk taking the vax? Absolutely, that would be way better than getting a booster every year or 2. Things can go wrong and there aren't longterm studies on those specific vaccines, but like with GLP-1s we are aware of the mechanisms at play and can deduce that the risk of permanent damage or long-term severe impacts are pretty low. Not 0, but low. So you take the risk because the benefits likely outweigh the risks. But that's always gonna be a personal choice.
 
From Gemini:

While there is no specific clinical evidence that GLP-1 drugs can cure an "irrational hatred" of potatoes, these medications significantly alter how the brain and body process food-related cues, which can lead to shifts in food preferences and aversions.

Effects on Food Perception and Aversion
  • Sensory Recalibration: GLP-1 drugs can cause a "deeper recalibration" of how flavor is registered, sometimes leading to a complete loss of interest in once-beloved foods or, conversely, making previously unappealing healthy foods taste better.
  • Quieting "Food Noise": These medications reduce intrusive thoughts about food by influencing brain circuits related to appetite, reward, and motivation.
  • Taste Changes: Users frequently report altered taste sensations (dysgeusia), such as food tasting more metallic, too intense (especially sweet or salty), or simply "odd".
  • Reduced Reward Response: By dampening the brain's reward system, GLP-1s can make the anticipation of eating certain foods less intense.

Potential Impact on Food Aversions
  • Shifting Preferences: Many users report major changes in preferences, often moving away from fatty, fried, or ultra-processed foods toward "savory umami" or simpler flavors.
  • Gender Differences: Some research suggests women may be more likely than men to experience a change in taste preferences while on these drugs.
  • Psychological Limits: While these drugs impact the physiological and neurological drive to eat, they do not typically address deep-seated psychological drivers of eating behaviors or specific trauma-related food phobias.
If your "hatred" is purely sensory—based on the taste or texture of potatoes—the medication's ability to rewire your palate might make them more tolerable. However, if the aversion is deeply psychological or rooted in a specific phobia, the drug's effect on appetite may not be enough to overcome it without additional behavioral therapy.
OMG. Couldn't get all the way through this. Span of attention too short. Probably why I got kicked out of a required theology class once upon a time (transferred credits from U-dub to fix that). Maybe there's a drug that can safely fix this deficit disorder and also make eggplant appealing to me.
 
The patient can decide if they're so miserable on the drugs that they'd rather be obese. And then stop taking it. That's their decision.


Though preliminary studies do show no link of increased depression or mood disorders from taking the drug. In fact, there's some early evidence that not being controlled by food anymore is IMPROVING people's mental health, not worsening it.

not miserable. just emotionless. no ups, no downs.

no joy. no pain. no art. just math.
 
I mean I'm not really over-selling them or anything. The drug does what it intends to do at a rate that has never been seen before, with relatively mild side effects. If you go on them for a year, lose a bunch of weight, go off them and not change your lifestyle at all then yeah, you'll gain the weight back. It's not magic unless you take them for life. Which many people will - there will likely be pills coming to the market soon with a small maintenance dose that is enough for most people to maintain for life.

Do I want to avoid covid forever and not have to risk taking the vax? Absolutely, that would be way better than getting a booster every year or 2. Things can go wrong and there aren't longterm studies on those specific vaccines, but like with GLP-1s we are aware of the mechanisms at play and can deduce that the risk of permanent damage or long-term severe impacts are pretty low. Not 0, but low. So you take the risk because the benefits likely outweigh the risks. But that's always gonna be a personal choice.
Yeah, Presty, couldn't get all the way through your testimony either. Gentle scan says I probably agree with some of what ya gots t' say, but man! Imma file LOTS-a this stuff for more follow-up muuuuch later. 😉 😘
 
That's more or less it's underlying core benefit. You should, in theory be working on and rewiring some of those dopamine response pathways in your brain while on it so that when you're off of it you just don't start mainlining milk chocolate and binge watching porn while making prop bets on 4th division brazilian women's football.

Which I guess is why Zeke is against it and thinks that would be a joyless life.

whatever, fatty!
 
counterpoint: people are morons

but yes, it does seem to be part of the process, ie. people love not spending all day thinking about food or gambling.

The effectiveness does wear off over time though, so like anything else, if a person loses a bunch of weight, goes off the drug, then returns to the exact same lifestyle they had before, eventually they will gain back all the weight and lose all of the benefits.

with likely permanent damage to their hormonal systems.

I think a lot of people recognize this though, so hopefully getting that reset leads to better results going forward.

sweet summer child
 
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