• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

Core 4 No More: The Motherfucking Off-Season Thread

Wayward DP said:
You know you are part of this forum too? Arguably more so than most when factoring in goldust, gordo; etc
Click to expand...
I would never remove myself from the forums wrongness about goaltending. We are all guilty of it. Think we've been bang on with forwards and d but goaltending ain't an easy one to crack.
 
Wayward DP said:
the position you've outlined in this post is largely consistent with that other folks have been saying?

what are we arguing about then?

yeah, we need a goalie.

yeah, they are assholes. all of them have concerns.

I've stated a preference for a durable asshole, and not a Brossoit asshole.

I haven't seen anyone advocate spending big dollars and term to obtain a goalie? beyond some suggestions that if Sorokin is actually available, it's probably worth looking into acquiring him since he is one of the few legit consistent goalies in the league...
Click to expand...
This is a question for CH1 and ME.
 
Preston said:
I would never remove myself from the forums wrongness about goaltending. We are all guilty of it. Think we've been bang on with forwards and d but goaltending ain't an easy one to crack.
Click to expand...
okay again we mostly agree!

goalies remind me of pitchers just in the sense that they seem to be more volatile year-year than regular position players...
 
Wayward DP said:
okay again we mostly agree!

goalies remind me of pitchers just in the sense that they seem to be more volatile year-year than regular position players...
Click to expand...
And even more-so during small sample playoff runs. Performance can be wildly volatile, whereas a stud center or d, while they may not produce counting stats, will almost always be a net positive in driving possession. Goalies either allow goals or they don't. There's no "possession" or metrics that can influence the game other than that.
 
Wayward DP said:
the position you've outlined in this post is largely consistent with that other folks have been saying?

what are we arguing about then?

yeah, we need a goalie.

yeah, they are assholes. all of them have concerns.

I've stated a preference for a durable asshole, and not a Brossoit asshole.

I haven't seen anyone advocate spending big dollars and term to obtain a goalie? beyond some suggestions that if Sorokin is actually available, it's probably worth looking into acquiring him since he is one of the few legit consistent goalies in the league...
Click to expand...

Yes we all agree that we should make the perfect goalie add this year.

Thanks for sorting that out.
 
Wayward DP said:
Ironic for LOF, notoriously opposed to injury prone players, to be such a Woll stan.

I am quite high on Woll too but durability remains a serious and legit Q.
Click to expand...
The injuries have been flukey. Feels like a situation where he’s had a bunch of stupid luck and he’ll be fine the rest of the way.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
The injuries have been flukey. Feels like a situation where he’s had a bunch of stupid luck and he’ll be fine the rest of the way.
Click to expand...

Except he's been like this his entire career, not just this year.

There's a certain level of luck to injuries, but there's also a certain baseline of durability necessary to play professional sports. He may not have it.

He's been in the NHL for parts of 4 seasons now, has played 39 total regular season games but has been on the IR 4 times already (NHL only, not sure how many times he's been IR in the AHL, but based on his lack of workload down there, probably at least a couple). For all of the heat Robertson took for lacking the durability to absorb cheap shots, Woll has been way less durable than Robbie and without any illegal contact to explain the injuries.

and all of that is fine-ish. He still might build himself up to be durable enough to play 40+ games a season of average or better hockey, and I hope he does. But that's the type of shit you slot someone in as the 1B/Backup to figure out. You don't risk your season on it maybe happening.
 
I'm a huge Woll fan. I have serious questions about his durability though. I'm comfortable proceeding with him as half of a tandem this year. I'd prefer the other half be a more durable asshole, given Woll's track record of non-durability.
 
MindzEye said:
Except he's been like this his entire career, not just this year.

There's a certain level of luck to injuries, but there's also a certain baseline of durability necessary to play professional sports. He may not have it.

He's been in the NHL for parts of 4 seasons now, has played 39 total regular season games but has been on the IR 4 times already (NHL only, not sure how many times he's been IR in the AHL, but based on his lack of workload down there, probably at least a couple). For all of the heat Robertson took for lacking the durability to absorb cheap shots, Woll has been way less durable than Robbie and without any illegal contact to explain the injuries.

and all of that is fine-ish. He still might build himself up to be durable enough to play 40+ games a season of average or better hockey, and I hope he does. But that's the type of shit you slot someone in as the 1B/Backup to figure out. You don't risk your season on it maybe happening.
Click to expand...

Goalies especially need a baseline of flexibility to survive the rigors of the position.

Carey Price’s old coach talked about how his flexibility was not elite, unlike a Marc Andre Fleury who he described as a rubber man.

Woll might be on the other extreme, for all we know
 
Wayward DP said:
as I said, best case will be a JT for Markstrom trade.

more likely is some combo of Lilly, Robby, and picks.

my faith in bubbles is very low.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm deeply concerned by this.

Not that "I'm a Republican Senator from Maine and I'm deeply concerned" either. Really fucking concerned.

Markstrom should have something resembling negative value. 34 yrs old coming off of a very average season which was a bouceback from a dreadful season, 2 x 6M left on his deal.

If Calgary ate half the deal I still wouldn't love it tbh.
 
CH1 said:
Haha. We are the moderates on this issue.
You chose to be the mouthpiece for the Freedom (from goalie) Convoy.
Click to expand...
I want nothing more than for them to acquire a great goalie! Good goalies are better to have than bad ones. We agree on this! I'm simply cautioning folks who think they have it all figured out when the data shows that even the most consistent goalies in the league 1. don't have a very long window and 2. are more volatile year to year and game to game than other positions! And the separation from the cream of the crop and league average platoon guy is much smaller than that of an elite center and a 3C so there is not much room for error. You can make a bet on a forward or d and you pretty much know what you're getting for the first 3-5 years of the contract. There is a higher degree of volatility with goaltending.

That's all. This does not = "I want Kallgren to lead the Leafs to the cup." There is something in between "get a goalie at all costs" and "ignore goaltending all together". That is what I would consider moderate.

"Just acquire a great, consistent goalie" is like the people who give advice on stocks and say "just pick the winners!" Well yeah, duh. I want them to do that as well! And as I said, beyond Saros and Ullmark, I don't see much out there worth spending any real money on so I veer towards the cheapest option with some upside because outside of a handful of goalies your odds of "hitting" and getting average+ play are not so different whether you pay a guy 3m or 6m on the open market.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top