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For Borje - The Toronto Maple Leafs 2023 Stanley Cup Champions Thread

WellPlayed said:
Shit is just hilarious at this point. This group is probably statistically the greatest playoff chokers of all time. As far as sustained, consistent choking goes. I can't imagine anyone has ever had this consistent a run of sustained choking. It's actually impressive. Difficult to do, really.
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When you combine the sustained consistent choking with the contrast between their skill level/regular season success and their playoff success, there’s no doubt these guys are the biggest chokers in the modern NHL era—at least the last 30-40 years.

The previous all-time playoff chokers of our lifetimes were probably the Alfredsson Sens and Marleau/Thornton Sharks, and these guys blow those two teams right out of the fucking water in the playoff choking department.
 
I really thought the Sens were such chokers, but they did reach the conf finals by 2003. This is just unheard of in history.
In 2020 Leafs also had that amazing 3 goal comeback against Columbus but no one remembers it because they lost the deciding game.
 
You guys are making me sad. I wish there were two games left to salvage this shit.

Unless those would be two losses, in which case I’d like to forfeit now.
 
I'd actually feel pretty zen if they were at least playing well. There's no excuse not to be the better team in this series and they just haven't. They were better last year against a better Tampa team.



With that said, they still have to be the favorites and if you gave me even odds and forced me to pick a side, I'd pick the Leafs every time.
 
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Preston said:
I'd actually feel pretty zen if they were at least playing well. There's no excuse not to be the better team in this series and they just haven't. They were better last year against a worse Tampa team.



With that said, they still have to be the favorites and if you gave me even odds and forced me to pick a side, I'd pick the Leafs every time.
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agree with the bolded.

disagree with the italicized. too many scars. fuck these assholes.
 
Wayward DP said:
woof



hey sheldon, fuck off.
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And I don’t want to hear the “we don’t want to drop a rusty Lilly into the series after he’s been sitting” excuses.

If one of our top forwards, or someone like Rielly or Brodie had been out for the whole series with an injury but was now available for game six, we wouldn’t hesitate to put them into the lineup. “Rust” be damned.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
These are the raw stats purely based on actual goals. Won’t some nerd please post his fancy stats? I’d like to know what those say about him under these circumstances.
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zeke's been posting them in the GDTs and they're fucking ugly.

and the only argument for keeping Holl in the lineup is his work on the PK, but I don't think our PK has been all that good either. at least not good enough to justify playing him over Timmy.
 
Wayward DP said:
agree with the bolded.

disagree with the italicized. too many scars. fuck these assholes.
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Betting lines have them at ~79% chance to win the series. Being up 3-2 against a team of similar caliber (even if getting outplayed for most of it) is a huge advantage and historically, it's not a series that one often loses. I tend to agree with 79%. Nowhere near enough to feel comfortable, mind you. Especially since, as I've said, I freaking hate their game this series. They're playing scared hockey and can't crack the Bolts neutral zone clogging. So many off the glass zone exits and dump and (no) chases with aggressive line matching and tough zone starts for a line that arguably shouldn't even be in the NHL. This over-coaching is something that huge underdogs do to try to gain an edge on a superior team so I don't really get it. It's like they've changed their identity entirely and I'm not sure this isn't by design from Keefe.
 
And I don't think the putting Liljegren in cold thing is the worst argument in the world. It will be tough for him to get up to speed since he was already struggling with confidence when he felt his spot was threatened. But the Leafs put themselves in this position by refusing to make him a regular. So here we are.
 
Preston said:
Betting lines have them at ~79% chance to win the series. Being up 3-2 against a team of similar caliber (even if getting outplayed for most of it) is a huge advantage and historically, it's not a series that one often loses. I tend to agree with 79%. Nowhere near enough to feel comfortable, mind you. Especially since, as I've said, I freaking hate their game this series. They're playing scared hockey and can't crack the Bolts neutral zone clogging. So many off the glass zone exits and dump and (no) chases with aggressive line matching and tough zone starts for a line that arguably shouldn't even be in the NHL. This over-coaching is something that huge underdogs do to try to gain an edge on a superior team so I don't really get it. It's like they've changed their identity entirely and I'm not sure this isn't by design from Keefe.
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more disagreeing with you picking the Leafs every time. they've lost the benefit of that doubt, many times over.
 
Holl has definitely flopped these playoffs. Eye test, normie stats, nerdies are all in agreement there. Its been ugly.

Thing is it hasnt looked all that better for guys like Gio and McCabe unfortunately.


I do have to say that Gio finally looked like Gio again for the first time this series....AFTER that hit from Maroon.
 
Of course whats gonna really make Keefe extra hesitant to pull Holl is that he's the #1 PK guy and he's completely nullified stamkos on the PP so far.
 
as frustrating as it is, people need to acknowledge that every series is going to Game 6, except for 1 (Vegas over WPG 4-1). The Lightning have made it to the Finals 3 years in a row so you can't compare them to the Jets.

it is concerning that we haven't played very well for chunks of these games.

avoiding Game 7 would be a really, really, really, really, really good idea.
 
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