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Four Nations

MindzEye said:
Yeah, regardless of other ideological underpinnings (patriotic, religious, political, etc) Trump is a weird human manifestation of the angst they've had their entire adult lives over being forced by society to be polite to people different than they are, to be afraid to mistreat their wives or children for fear of financial ruin from divorce, etc. Trump is the guy promising to make all of that okay for them. Black guy cuts you off in traffic? Call him whatever you want, as loud as you want. Struggling to understand the accent on the person serving your table at a restaurant? Tell them to go the fuck back home where they belong. Rich white guys don't have to pay taxes and everyone kiss their asses? Well, that's what I want to be when I grow up then! Sick of listening to your wife nag you? In grandpa's day women and children did what they were told.

Trump is the spirit animal for every man threatened by having to treat people around them decently for their world to function.
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This.

IMO while most MAGA folks are just mad that they can't use certain words in public, don't like the move to green energy, or that they are forced to see under-represented minorities gain even a small bit of power in their lives - the real money behind the movement are the ones that got a little antsy when money and fame couldn't keep guys like Cosby and Weinstein out of jail.
 
BG said:
This.

IMO while most MAGA folks are just mad that they can't use certain words in public, don't like the move to green energy, or that they are forced to see under-represented minorities gain even a small bit of power in their lives - the real money behind the movement are the ones that got a little antsy when money and fame couldn't keep guys like Cosby and Weinstein out of jail.
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Yeah, I buy that. It's more of a class war than a culture war, 100%. If cultural equality wasn't a reaaaally short step away from economic equality, the wealthy class wouldn't have had this type of knee jerk reaction.
 
MindzEye said:
So you'll have to excuse me, as I'm admittedly not well versed in the bible. Did Jesus clarify how much spousal abuse was okay? Divorces? Sexual assaults? I know the rules on beating slaves is in there, so I assume there's also a section on how much rape is allowed? Can you direct me towards it please?

Thanks.
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I believe the old testament rule is that if you raped a virgin you got to marry her.
 
ah yes i remembered correctly.



In the NIV, Deuteronomy 22:28–29 reads like this:

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
 
MindzEye said:
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I won't defend slavery of any kind. But in those good old days slavery into a Jewish household was not an uncommon option for a person who had no one else to protect them (re no family of their own). I guess thats a kind of indentureship? They would eventually finish off there servitude and could convert to Judaism and become a member of the nation. I do not believe mistreatment was an issue. Jewish law insists that slaves are fed before you are. Heres a bit of a write up if you are so inclined to read it:

 
MindzEye said:
So you'll have to excuse me, as I'm admittedly not well versed in the bible. Did Jesus clarify how much spousal abuse was okay? Divorces? Sexual assaults? I know the rules on beating slaves is in there, so I assume there's also a section on how much rape is allowed? Can you direct me towards it please?

Thanks.
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Yes. None.
Wrt Divorce God Almighty Himself says: Malachai 2:16

"For I detest divorce—said the ETERNAL, the God of Israel—and covering oneself with lawlessness as with a garment—said GOD of Hosts. So be careful of your life-breath and do not act treacherously."

I fear your sarcasm is misplaced. I am not a big proponent of the NT. Anything that is attributed to coming out of Jesus's mouth that goes against the OT should be discarded. God is never wrong (God and Jesus are not one and the same). There is so much that is outright lies in the NT. The unfortunate thing is that most people will only read the "NT" because something called "Old" isn't worth reading. Thank the Church leaders for that.

If you want an honest take on what God is all about you have to learn the OT (OT is an insult to Jews by the way) it is called The Tanach. But of course you need a good translation (unless your fluent in Hebrew?) Getting a good translation isn't easy. I would recommend a Chumash by Art Scroll (The Torah) to start with.

Did you ever wonder why the Church pushed learning Latin over Hebrew? It wasn't by accident. Just another attempt to keep people in the dark.
 
zeke said:
I believe the old testament rule is that if you raped a virgin you got to marry her.
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Actually the reverse is true: The victim is not required to marry the rapist; the rapist is required to marry his victim (if she consents), after paying her a very heavy fine.

“If a man finds a virgin girl who was not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give fifty [shekels of] silver to the girl’s father, and she shall become his wife, because he violated her. He shall not be able to send her away all the days of his life.”1

TheTalmud expounds on this but I am not going to go there. Research it if it truly interests you.
 
GeneralT001 said:
Actually the reverse is true: The victim is not required to marry the rapist; the rapist is required to marry his victim (if she consents), after paying her a very heavy fine.

“If a man finds a virgin girl who was not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give fifty [shekels of] silver to the girl’s father, and she shall become his wife, because he violated her. He shall not be able to send her away all the days of his life.”1

TheTalmud expounds on this but I am not going to go there. Research it if it truly interests you.
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(if she consents)

nope.
 
GeneralT001 said:
Actually the reverse is true: The victim is not required to marry the rapist; the rapist is required to marry his victim (if she consents), after paying her a very heavy fine.

“If a man finds a virgin girl who was not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give fifty [shekels of] silver to the girl’s father, and she shall become his wife, because he violated her. He shall not be able to send her away all the days of his life.”1

TheTalmud expounds on this but I am not going to go there. Research it if it truly interests you.
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I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you are seriously delusional.
 
axlsalinger said:
why am I not surprised ... :rolleyes:
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Thing is. If you studied the OT and then compared whats in the NT you would be quite shocked and quickly realize that the NT is not to be trusted. I entered this area of study with an open mind to Christianity. But the evidence is pretty clear that the NT is not trustworthy. Its interesting stuff.
 
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