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Four Nations

As we have seen the past six weeks, there’s a large swath of voters who viewed Trump, at minimum, as a fascist lite, asshole but trusted there was enough checks and balances to rein him in.


Ooooooops!
 
worm said:
That isn't what the argument was though imo.

The Wayne related argument was just that he isn't against annexation while being a friend with annexation and is whining (through his wife) about him losing the respect of Canadians when he has the power to easily stop it.
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And I agree that he's a bitch and a cunt. But the argument against me was that I wasn't extreme enough in how angry I was so therefore I'm a piece of shit.
 
MindzEye said:
I'd say he was clearly ideological about a number of things to the point of mythologizing them. Utilizing the power and authority of the state to enact those policies, venerate those things, and punish those who didn't belong was his main thing.
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or was he using those things to attain power and authority.
 
MindzEye said:
All of those words without actually answering my question. Like I said, sure he's not specifically a Nazi (with a provided definition) but he is definitely a fascist authoritarian and no, Charlottesville isn't in the top 20 most compelling pieces of evidence as to why he is definitely a authoritarian fascist. For complete clarity, here's a solid working definition of the term fascist:

View attachment 24740

The only thing I'd really add to that is that fascism should probably include a blending or blurring of the lines between government and business/corporate power.

If you don't think Trump meets that definition above, I question what you've been paying attention for for the last 6 weeks.
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we know that he is, but it's not an ideology. He just knows that since he became president, he tells people to do things and they do it without question, which feeds his narcissism. The fact that there are so many fawning idiots in the Republican Party willing to say things on camera that they know are total bullshit to praise Dear Leader is what makes this movement dangerous. That along with the fact that he surrounds himself with shitty people, because anybody who dared to question him has already been purged. That's not because he's a Nazi or an ideologue though, it's because he's too stupid to understand how stupid he is.

I'm not saying this isn't a dangerous situation. It absolutely is. But it's also a dimwitted reality tv show host caked in makeup who has no fucking clue what he's doing and has fucked up every business he's ever run due to his own incompetence.

We have to be very wary and explore all our options in extreme detail. But don't give him too much power either.
 
zeke said:
was Hitler actually ideological tho or did he just have a messiah complex
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I mean I haven't read Mein (David) Kampf but I have heard it summarized, and while his ideas are clearly batshit fucking insane, they are also clearly a very specific ideology.
 
zeke said:
or was he using those things to attain power and authority.
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I mean, maybe. It's hard to determine chicken from the egg, but most of the history I've read of him was that he was a true believer in what WW1 Germany stood for, who the german people were, etc and that Germany surrendering and being embarrassed by versailles radicalized him. A lot of the mythology he pumped wasn't about him really, it was about the perfection of the aryan, the 1000 yr reich, etc, etc. That's in pretty stark contrast to Trump for example, who has textbook narcissist traits and would never put anything or anyone over himself.
 
MindzEye said:
I mean, maybe. It's hard to determine chicken from the egg, but most of the history I've read of him was that he was a true believer in what WW1 Germany stood for, who the german people were, etc and that Germany surrendering and being embarrassed by versailles radicalized him. A lot of the mythology he pumped wasn't about him really, it was about the perfection of the aryan, the 1000 yr reich, etc, etc. That's in pretty stark contrast to Trump for example, who has textbook narcissist traits and would never put anything or anyone over himself.
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Trump also believes the exact same thing about america and about the globalist cabal ruining the beautiful world of the pure races.
 
axlsalinger said:
we know that he is, but it's not an ideology. He just knows that since he became president, he tells people to do things and they do it without question, which feeds his narcissism. The fact that there are so many fawning idiots in the Republican Party willing to say things on camera that they know are total bullshit to praise Dear Leader is what makes this movement dangerous. That along with the fact that he surrounds himself with shitty people, because anybody who dared to question him has already been purged. That's not because he's a Nazi or an ideologue though, it's because he's too stupid to understand how stupid he is.
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It's 100% an ideology. It's Trumpism. All of the WW2 fascisms were different from one another around certain common themes. Italian fascism was different than nazism, was different than the Francoists. Trumpism is a modern recipe of an old dish. Trump definitely believe in the infallibility of Trump and that's his core motivating principle and he's using bog standard fascism to re organize American society around his Trumpist beliefs. Anywhere he lacks specific ideologies necessary for the organization of the state, he's allowed people who lick his ass to step in (a core tenet of Trumpism is that his ass must get licked) and fill those specific organizational gaps.
 
zeke said:
Trump also believes the exact same thing about america
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Does he? I mean, he pretty clearly hates America and openly claims that only he could save it from being shit and broken. Hitler very specifically idolized Germany as it existed pre WW1, and the German people. I think a really core dividing line here is military service. Trump believes in Trump and therefore risking Trump for the sake of the US military in Vietnam was a complete no go whereas Adolf legitimately believed in the German state and German people, so was first in line to join the war effort and risk himself for the glory of Germany.
 
MindzEye said:
Does he? I mean, he pretty clearly hates America and openly claims that only he could save it from being shit and broken. Hitler very specifically idolized Germany as it existed pre WW1, and the German people. I think a really core dividing line here is military service. Trump believes in Trump and therefore risking Trump for the sake of the US military in Vietnam was a complete no go whereas Adolf legitimately believed in the German state and German people, so was first in line to join the war effort and risk himself for the glory of Germany.
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Trump hates only what the marxist globalists have done to america, not the "real americans", just like hitler hated what the marxist globalists had done to germany.

They both hated the "enemy within".
 
I do think America needs to find a way to turn the heat down. There ARE good ppl on both sides.

My neighbour is a trumpy PeePee weirdo but he also got up at 5am during that mental snowstorm a few weeks ago and shoveled out our entire block.
 
MindzEye said:
I mean, maybe. It's hard to determine chicken from the egg, but most of the history I've read of him was that he was a true believer in what WW1 Germany stood for, who the german people were, etc and that Germany surrendering and being embarrassed by versailles radicalized him. A lot of the mythology he pumped wasn't about him really, it was about the perfection of the aryan, the 1000 yr reich, etc, etc. That's in pretty stark contrast to Trump for example, who has textbook narcissist traits and would never put anything or anyone over himself.
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This is what baffles me about USA. Germany was in a bad spot when Hitler took over. The USA is not in that spot though they seem determined to self destruct
 
zeke said:
Trump hates only what the marxist globalists have done to america, not the "real americans", just like hitler hated what the marxist globalists had done to germany.

They both hated the "enemy within".
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That's what Trump says now because it's what serves him now. When Trump had the ability to show that he believed in the American state/cause, he developed bone spurs.

This is what I'm saying the dividing line between the two is. Hitler was a legitimate believer in the nation and a significant part of his megalomania was about returning Germany to what be believed was it's rightful place, and he sincerely wanted to be the progenetor of 1000 yrs of German dominance. He believed he was uniquely suited for the job, but the task itself wasn't about him. Trump has no beliefs outside of himself. Making America great isn't about America, it's about Trump and for Trump.
 
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