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Four Nations

worm said:
This is what baffles me about USA. Germany was in a bad spot when Hitler took over. The USA is not in that spot though they seem determined to self destruct
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According to the right wing echo chamber, America has never been worse.

Millions of criminals and rapists are pouring through the border daily with only their shirts on their backs and a suitcase stuffed with fentanyl.

Trans Trans Trans everywhere. Especially in grade school and there’s nothing parents can do to stop it.

The whole world (including Canada) is ripping the US off every day.

And good luck getting a good enough paying job to afford bacon if you’re white. And forget about saying Merry Christmas without getting cancelled!
 
it is kind of ironic that in the age of cancel culture, Trump constantly gives rationale to be canceled.. but he seems immune.
 
CH1 said:
According to the right wing echo chamber, America has never been worse.

Millions of criminals and rapists are pouring through the border daily with only their shirts on their backs and a suitcase stuffed with fentanyl.

Trans Trans Trans everywhere. Especially in grade school and there’s nothing parents can do to stop it.

The whole world (including Canada) is ripping the US off every day.

And good luck getting a good enough paying job to afford bacon if you’re white. And forget about saying Merry Christmas without getting cancelled!
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That's a nice summary.

I think all that and never having real hardship doesn't help.
 
worm said:
That's a nice summary.

I think all that and never having real hardship doesn't help.
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Yep

And not having a real powerful enemy to rally against. It used to be the Soviet Empire. Now they need an extra terrestrial invasion.
 
CH1 said:
All kidding aside, I’m looking at you @LeafGm … are you still rooting for Ovy not to break the goal scoring record?

Is PutinPuppet worse than TrumpBuddy?
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I’d definitely rate Ovechkin as worse than Gretzky. Not even really a question. As awful a human being and world leader as Trump is, the amount of blood Putin has on his hands compared to Trump could fill an ocean. Supporting him is far worse.

As far as the goal chase goes though, I don’t really care one way or another anymore. And probably wouldn’t have cared all along had I been aware that Gretzky is a close personal friend of Trump’s, a MAGA supporter and that he cares so little about Canada that he still pals around with Trump and won’t utter a single word in public in Canada defense’s even when Trump’s threatening to annex us and have Wayne rule us on his behalf.
 
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CH1 said:
I’m seeing some hilarious clips on my Insta feed arguing that Gretzky would be a mediocre player today — he’s too small, his shot would be too weak vs today’s goaltending — as if those weren’t critiques back then…. But the kicker was that Gretzky played when half the league were unhealthy chain smokers… and they showed a black and white pic of Gump Worsely. LOL

All kidding aside, I’m looking at you @LeafGm … are you still rooting for Ovy not to break the goal scoring record?

Is PutinPuppet worse than TrumpBuddy?
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Hockey IQ separated Gretzky more than his skill. He thought the game on a different level then everyone else

Always was and will continue to be a dumb argument. Gretzky in the 1920s or today is still elite
 
axlsalinger said:
It's a great quote, but Trump is not a Nazi though. He's a total piece of shit but we have to be somewhat realistic here. I just don't agree with guilt by association, I mean 77 million people voted for Donald Trump and he meets with dozens of people every day. If everyone's a Nazi then nobody's a Nazi.
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You seem to struggle with analogy. Or maybe my analogies suck. I dunno. But they make sense to me.

But in response to arguments that Canada should continue to honour Gretzky for his accomplishments on the ice because his support for a guy who wants to annex us is unrelated to what he was honoured for, I used Bill Cosby as an extreme example of the logical end point you can wind up at by arguing you shouldn’t take away someone’s accolades for legitimate accomplishments as long as their misdeeds are unrelated to those accomplishments.

Your takeaway from that was that I was equating what Gretzky and Cosby have done.

And then I used that Nazi quote to illustrate my belief that, at a certain point, continued friendly association with people who have unforgivably repugnant views makes you complicit. And you come back with “but Trump’s not a literal Nazi”.
 
Artnes said:
Hockey IQ separated Gretzky more than his skill. He thought the game on a different level then everyone else

Always was and will continue to be a dumb argument. Gretzky in the 1920s or today is still elite
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He was only elite because he had hired goons like Semenko and McSorley riding shotgun and making room for him to work. Orr had to do his own fighting and he did, over 50 times.

Without goons, Gretzky would have been snapped like a twig.
 
Artnes said:
Hockey IQ separated Gretzky more than his skill. He thought the game on a different level then everyone else

Always was and will continue to be a dumb argument. Gretzky in the 1920s or today is still elite
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You could toss beanpole 17 year old Gretzky into a modern NHL game and he would still absolutely dominate. He was five steps ahead of everyone on the ice at all times and I don’t see how that wouldn’t translate to today.
 
LeafGm said:
You seem to struggle with analogy. Or maybe my analogies suck. I dunno. But they make sense to me.

But in response to arguments that Canada should continue to honour Gretzky for his accomplishments on the ice because his support for a guy who wants to annex us is unrelated to what he was honoured for, I used Bill Cosby as an extreme example of the logical end point you can wind up at by arguing you shouldn’t take away someone’s accolades for legitimate accomplishments as long as their misdeeds are unrelated to those accomplishments.

Your takeaway from that was that I was equating what Gretzky and Cosby have done.

And then I used that Nazi quote to illustrate my belief that, at a certain point, continued friendly association with people who have unforgivably repugnant views makes you complicit. And you come back with “but Trump’s not a literal Nazi”.
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On the first point, I understand what you were trying to say but Preston and I were just pointing out that using that analogy is totally unfair to Wayne, they are not comparable. Because one is a massive decades-long crime spree. I get the concept of not being able to separate the art from the man with someone like Michael Jackson for example, but Wayne didn't commit a crime here, so it's a wrong analogy.

As for the 2nd one, I guess I was more responding to the idea that Trump's a Nazi in general, because we hear it every day and I'm kind of sick of it. He's a reprehensible piece of shit so I get it, but having dinner with the President of the United States does not make someone a traitor, nor does it make them responsible for everything he does or says.
 
axlsalinger said:
On the first point, I understand what you were trying to say but Preston and I were just pointing out that using that analogy is totally unfair to Wayne, they are not comparable. Because one is a massive decades-long crime spree. I get the concept of not being able to separate the art from the man with someone like Michael Jackson for example, but Wayne didn't commit a crime here, so it's a wrong analogy.
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Again, if you think I was comparing the two, you’re missing the point.


axlsalinger said:
As for the 2nd one, I guess I was more responding to the idea that Trump's a Nazi in general, because we hear it every day and I'm kind of sick of it. He's a reprehensible piece of shit so I get it, but having dinner with the President of the United States does not make someone a traitor, nor does it make them responsible for everything he does or says.
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Do you also get unreasonably upset when people say “ATM machine”? Like yes, Donald John Trump is not literally a member of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So it is technically true that anyone who calls the man a Nazi is not literally accurate.

But that’s a pretty pedantic argument to make. Most people are using “Nazi” as a colloquial alternative for “fascist” or “authoritarian”, both of which are perfectly reasonable and accurate ways to describe Trump.

And I fundamentally disagree with the last point. Both because you’re trivializing and misrepresenting the other side of the argument, as you’ve repeatedly done (“what’s wrong with him having dinner with Trump?”). And because I do believe that knowingly maintaining a close personal friendship with a monster and supporting his pursuit of power makes him complicit.
 
i dunno didn't actually watch it.

maybe just him being in the locker room talking to them reads better than his weird entrance onto the ice.
 
There’s a well documented history of people close to Trump saying he’s admired Hitler, that he’s longed for generals like his, that he’s had copies of Hitler’s speeches on his nightstand. He talks about migrants poisoning the blood of the country and opening up camps for them that have historically been used to torture terrorists. He tried to pull off a coup, failed, then came to power via legitimate means. He’s threatening to annex his neighbours. All the Nazi groups think he’s their leader. His own VP called him America’s Hitler and his two advisors are giving Nazi salutes. I don’t really care if anyone’s sick of the comparisons, tbh - I think they’re valid and obvious at this point.

And yes, I think if you’re having dinner and pal’ing with a President who’s threatening Canada, you are a traitor.
 
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