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GDT #14 FEB 10 7:30 - Les Schtroumpfs Costaud

Burke's not the worst GM. He has a penchant for big bold moves....but also for stubbornness when those moves don't work out.

Babcock was a good coach whose megalomania got the better of him. In the end he was clearly more interested in measuring his dick than trying to help the team win. He could get his touch back I guess.

One thing that always seems to happen is that this Toronto market brings out the worst in ego centric blowhards - they get louder more aggressive more defensive and even more entrenched in their ways.

Something I don't think will happen with Dubas and Keefe.
 
The TPF was pretty bad. They were too involved, and wanted their guys in charge (Peddie). Its no coincidence IMO that 2003-2012 was one of the worst Leafs eras.

Since Rogers and Bell came in they just hired the best people and gave them all the resources needed.
 
Also what killed Burke and many GMs was treating the cap like an annoyance instead of the integral basis of how you value every asset in the organization. Burke has no time for that nerd crap.
 
zeke said:
Also what killed Burke and many GMs was treating the cap like an annoyance instead of the integral basis of how you value every asset in the organization. Burke has no time for that nerd crap.
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Place a spreadsheet at the bottom of a whiskey bottle and he'll find it.
 
I'll stand up for Burke's rebuild. The group of players he put together didn't get the job done, but he worked his ass off to drum up the level of talent that he did. He also built it up from pretty much nothing - almost thin air.

This was Burkes starting point in 2008:

Ponikarovsky - Stajan - Blake
Hagman - Grabovski - Antropov
Kulemin - Moore - Stempniak
Devereaux - Mitchell - Mayers

Kaberle - Kubina
White - Finger
Stralman - Van Ryn

Toskala

Prospects: Schenn/Tlusty/Reimer/Stalberg
 
zeke said:
Also what killed Burke and many GMs was treating the cap like an annoyance instead of the integral basis of how you value every asset in the organization. Burke has no time for that nerd crap.
Click to expand...


The other thing I’d criticize Burke for is surrounding himself with a bunch of unqualified, like-minded cronies and buddies who acted like “yes men”, and reinforced all his worst impulses.

Though Burke is hardly unique in the sports world in that respect.

And of course for being totally incapable of identifying or acquiring a good goalie.
 
hockeylover said:
You mean people thought a GM coming off of a cup win was good and then watched his teams finish mostly out of the playoffs for the next 13 years and don't have the same opinion? Crazy.
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this is the pattern for leaf fan on FI

twist and turn to make every move the best move ever (babcock, burke, corsi doesnt matter cause he have skill, etc), shout down any voice that is critical (BUT HE WON A CUP) - and then do a 180
 
zeke said:
Burke's not the worst GM. He has a penchant for big bold moves....but also for stubbornness when those moves don't work out.

Babcock was a good coach whose megalomania got the better of him. In the end he was clearly more interested in measuring his dick than trying to help the team win. He could get his touch back I guess.

One thing that always seems to happen is that this Toronto market brings out the worst in ego centric blowhards - they get louder more aggressive more defensive and even more entrenched in their ways.

Something I don't think will happen with Dubas and Keefe.
Click to expand...
burke got lucky once (remember those debates about his ducks team ?)
that is it

i agree about babcock though
 
BG said:
I'll stand up for Burke's rebuild. The group of players he put together didn't get the job done, but he worked his ass off to drum up the level of talent that he did. He also built it up from pretty much nothing - almost thin air.

This was Burkes starting point in 2008:

Ponikarovsky - Stajan - Blake
Hagman - Grabovski - Antropov
Kulemin - Moore - Stempniak
Devereaux - Mitchell - Mayers

Kaberle - Kubina
White - Finger
Stralman - Van Ryn

Toskala

Prospects: Schenn/Tlusty/Reimer/Stalberg
Click to expand...

Burke was OK but just had too many disasters. Some bad luck - like Phaneuf dropping off a cliff, some just stupid - like komisarek. His idea of a bottom 6 was also super dumb.
 
Just want to give one shout out to Nonis.

Whose best move was miraculous - somehow trading away the worst contract ever without retaining capspace in return.

I still can't believe he managed to get rid of his biggest mistake like that.
 
worm said:
this is the pattern for leaf fan on FI

twist and turn to make every move the best move ever (babcock, burke, corsi doesnt matter cause he have skill, etc), shout down any voice that is critical (BUT HE WON A CUP) - and then do a 180
Click to expand...
This is the pattern for... almost every fan base in sports.

But again, completely unsurprising that a GM coming off a cup win would be talked up and 13 years of losing teams later would not be.
 
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Burke's biggest miss was not using the analytics budget. He;s not flexibility, has no interest in changing his views, which hurt him.
 
zeke said:
Just want to give one shout out to Nonis.

Whose best move was miraculous - somehow trading away the worst contract ever without retaining capspace in return.

I still can't believe he managed to get rid of his biggest mistake like that.
Click to expand...


From what I recall, Kekalainen was the one who actually thought of that trade and approached Nonis with the idea.

So the only thing I give that dumb fuck credit for is having the stones to go to ownership and propose they flush about $30M down the toilet (and commit to spending about $5M above the cap on player salaries long-term) in order to fix his fuck-up.

Though it was probably Shanahan who actually did that, so maybe Nonis deserves no credit at all.
 
zeke said:
Just want to give one shout out to Nonis.

Whose best move was miraculous - somehow trading away the worst contract ever without retaining capspace in return.

I still can't believe he managed to get rid of his biggest mistake like that.
Click to expand...
He was a solid assistant GM but didn't seem to have it to be a GM. Think his best overall work was in that capacity.

Silvio Dante (Sopranos): "Some people are meant to be number two".
 
hockeylover said:
This is the pattern for... almost every fan base in sports.

But again, completely unsurprising that a GM coming off a cup win would be talked up and 13 years of losing teams later would not be.
Click to expand...
disagree

habs fans hate everything and it is the worst move ever
 
leafman101 said:
The TPF was pretty bad. They were too involved, and wanted their guys in charge (Peddie). Its no coincidence IMO that 2003-2012 was one of the worst Leafs eras.

Since Rogers and Bell came in they just hired the best people and gave them all the resources needed.
Click to expand...
forgot about the Peddie days. fucking wiener that guy was
 
zeke said:
Also what killed Burke and many GMs was treating the cap like an annoyance instead of the integral basis of how you value every asset in the organization. Burke has no time for that nerd crap.
Click to expand...
that and his terrible goaltending takes
 
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