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GDT Game 39: VS Rangers, Thursday, January 5, 7:00 PM EST

Habsy said:
I don't. That's the one draft really stuck in my head ala Rolex. The writing was all over the wall to take Kreider and I was quite vocal about it. He goes on to take Price out when we had a legit shot at the cup and has been owning us since.

It was a stupid appeasement pick. Idiocy like that is what sets the club back. All this PC bullshit. Oooh he's French from Harvard. Good for fucking him, he couldn't keep up in any other league above ivy league.

Real fuck up of a pick. But French...
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It was more than just the French thing, with the draft in Montreal. We had just drafted 4 US guys with our first picks, Fischer, McDonagh, Max, Kristo, and none of them were panning out at the time while Giroux and Perron were productive. So drafting another HS guy ahead of another Franco would have been ballsy. Even Timmins said that he didn’t think he would have made it out alive had he made that pick. Stupid I know, but it was clearly a factor.
 
GrandWazoo said:
It was more than just the French thing, with the draft in Montreal. We had just drafted 4 US guys with our first picks, Fischer, McDonagh, Max, Kristo, and none of them were panning out at the time while Giroux and Perron were productive. So drafting another HS guy ahead of another Franco would have been ballsy. Even Timmins said that he didn’t think he would have made it out alive had he made that pick. Stupid I know, but it was clearly a factor.
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Then definitely should have taken Kreider.
 
GrandWazoo said:
It was more than just the French thing, with the draft in Montreal. We had just drafted 4 US guys with our first picks, Fischer, McDonagh, Max, Kristo, and none of them were panning out at the time while Giroux and Perron were productive. So drafting another HS guy ahead of another Franco would have been ballsy. Even Timmins said that he didn’t think he would have made it out alive had he made that pick. Stupid I know, but it was clearly a factor.
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Timmins went into typical self serving Shaggy "it wasn't me" mode a few years later. One of my biggest pet peeves and reasons I despised Timmins was his refusal ever to accept responsibility for hss choices.
 
Krustchev said:
He also sucked at scouting.
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Guhle, Caufield, Xhekaj, potentially Roy could change that outlook…

Madden Jr gets all kinds of kudos for amateur scouting yet Ducks continually suck, Comptois and almost all of his D picks have been busts and I’ve always been a Madden Jr fan

Jury’s still out on Gorton / Bobrov… track record is eerily similar to Timmins, which is to say pretty mediocre
 
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Sal_Butera said:
Guhle, Caufield, Xhekaj, potentially Roy could change that outlook…

Madden Jr gets all kinds of kudos for amateur scouting yet Ducks continually suck, Comptois and almost all of his D picks have been busts and I’ve always been a Madden Jr fan

Jury’s still out on Gorton / Bobrov… track record is eerily similar to Timmins, which is to say pretty mediocre
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One could argue that Guhle and Caufield fell into his lap. They both dropped some and it would have been stupid to pass. Even for Timmins.

Xhekaj was literally throwing a dart at a board but I'll give him some marks there.

Roy was the first pick in the QMJHL draft and had exceptional status. Had Timmins grabbed him in the second I would give him more credit but he was the sixth player they took and they took him under the standard "French guy available in the fifth round".

So no, I don't think he improved. I think he lucked out.
 
Habsy said:
One could argue that Guhle and Caufield fell into his lap. They both dropped some and it would have been stupid to pass. Even for Timmins.

Xhekaj was literally throwing a dart at a board but I'll give him some marks there.

Roy was the first pick in the QMJHL draft and had exceptional status. Had Timmins grabbed him in the second I would give him more credit but he was the sixth player they took and they took him under the standard "French guy available in the fifth round".

So no, I don't think he improved. I think he lucked out.
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Luck plays a role in drafting and development
 
Habsy said:
If that's what you're looking for in your head of scouting then more power to you.
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Sure it does

Point , Kucherov etc....skilled players who panned out in later rounds

Good development team but you need some luck
 
You confuse luck with risk/reward often

Some teams just have bigger balls.
 
I think Timmins was below average but luck is the great equaliser. I have never seen an analysis (NHL or NFL) that showed that superb drafting can be replicated year over year.

“Just don’t suck too often” is the best I hope for. TT sucked too often.
 
Habsy said:
One could argue that Guhle and Caufield fell into his lap. They both dropped some and it would have been stupid to pass. Even for Timmins.

Xhekaj was literally throwing a dart at a board but I'll give him some marks there.

Roy was the first pick in the QMJHL draft and had exceptional status. Had Timmins grabbed him in the second I would give him more credit but he was the sixth player they took and they took him under the standard "French guy available in the fifth round".

So no, I don't think he improved. I think he lucked out.
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Even as a TT loather, I find that unfair. TT does deserve some credit for not passing up on a good player passed over by his direct competitor(s).

There's luck involved because you can't control what teams ahead of you pick.

If you're going to declare CC and Gughle as mere luck, you also need to allow that Timmins may have been unlucky at other times when the guy he really wanted was selected right before the Habs picked.
 
CH1 said:
Even as a TT loather, I find that unfair. TT does deserve some credit for not passing up on a good player passed over by his direct competitor(s).

There's luck involved because you can't control what teams ahead of you pick.

If you're going to declare CC and Gughle as mere luck, you also need to allow that Timmins may have been unlucky at other times when the guy he really wanted was selected right before the Habs picked.
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His overall body of work was on the mid level of mediocre. Hopefully the Bobrov-Lapointe duo will be a significant upgrade.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
The problem with Wehave's argument is that that time we had english management as Gainey was GM
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There were still too many franco hangers-on during Gainey's tenure. HuGo have no prior connection to the club at all. They are complete outsiders who had no prior relationship (and probably not much of a current relationship) with the local media jackals.
 
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