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Laine v Matthews

CRL said:
title "NLA star " scares shit of me
still remember what happened to Simon Gamache, Damien Brunner and Linus Omark
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Those guys were all in their mid 20's when they were hung with that tag. Matthews would have been a NCAA star instead if that makes you feel better, but decided to go rape a 2nd tier european league instead. Swiss A is about equivalent to Liiga but doesn't get a lot of pub in North America because they don't develop a lot of NHL talent.
 
NLA star, US National Development Program Star, International Star, USHL star. It doesn't matter what league he has played in, Matthews has been a "star" in every single one.
 
number17 said:
EVERY SINGLE YEAR, the hockey media like to hype up the consensus 2nd or 3rd ranked prospect and that he may challenge for the #1 spot. Even in the last draft, when McDavid was clearly the 'can't miss' generational talent, people talked up Eichel as another generational talent, and that he may give McDavid a run for the $$.

1-2-3 will go Matthews, Laine and Puljujarrvi ... there is no question in my mind there won't be any surprises.
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Exactly. The media needs something to talk about.
 
Well yeah, but the "media driven" hype for the #2 pick has been around great players. Seguin, Hedman, Doughty, Eichel. Its not like they were hyping JVR or Sam Reinhart for the #1 pick.

Laine has earned the hype. He is a great prospect. He literally just led a mens team to the championship in the 4th or 5th best league in the world.
 
To follow-up on leafman's post, here's a list the top-20 all-time under-18 seasons in the Finish Liiga.

A note: I've omitted anything pre-1990, since otherwise the list would be littered with Finnish players that no one's ever heard of from the 60's, 70's & 80's. My source for all this info is here, though I've also gone in and added playoff totals (when applicable) to each player's totals.

It also seems like, for the most part, 17 year-olds playing in the main Finish Liiga is a relatively new development. Even guys like Teemu Selanne and Esa Tikkanen, for example, were left entirely in the junior levels at 17 (and beyond) even though they were posting absolutely dominant numbers at those levels.

So, historical comparisons going too far back just aren't really helpful, and we're left with somewhat of a limited sample-size for comparison. And even some recent players (like Rantanen, who's posted Nylander-esque numbers in the AHL this year at the same age as Willie) have oddly low numbers, which probably goes back to the tendency of Scandinavian leagues to play young guys on the fourth line with very limited ice-time at the major-league level, for the most part.

1. Mikael Granlund - GP 49, G 14, A 32, Pts 46, 0.939 PPG (09/10)
2. Aleksander Barkov - GP 58, G 21, A 32, Pts 53, 0.914 PPG (12/13)
3. Patrik Laine - GP 64, G 27, A 21, Pts 48, 0.750 PPG (15/16)
4. Artturi Lehkonen - GP 49, G 16, A 17, Pts 33, 0.673 PPG (12/13)
5. Joel Armia - GP 53, G G 20, A 11, Pts 33, 0.623 PPG (10/11)
6. Jesse Puljujärvi - GP 60, G 17, A 20, Pts 37, 0.616 PPG (15/16)
7. Teuvo Teräväinen - GP 49, G 13, A 11, Pts 24, 0.490 PPG (11/12)
8. Juuso Ikonen - GP 57, G 13, A 13, Pts 26, 0.456 PPG (12/13)
9. Tuomo Ruutu - GP 52, G 11, A 11, Pts 22, 0.423 PPG (00/01)
10. Sebastian Aho - GP 40, G 5 A 11, Pts 16, 0.400 PPG (14/15)
11. Jonni Vauhkonen - GP 41, G 8, A 5, Pts 13, 0.317 PPG (92/93)
12. Kasperi Kapanen - GP 47, G 7, A 7, Pts 14, 0.298 PPG (13/14)
13. Miikka Salomäki - GP 43, G 4, A 7, Pts 11, 0.256 PPG (10/11)
14. Janne Grönvall - GP 40, G 2, A 8, Pts 10, 0.250 PPG (90/91)
15. Mikko Rantanen - GP 37, G 5, A 4, Pts 9, 0.243 PPG (13/14)
 
MindzEye said:
Matthews ability to carry the puck at speed is crazy good.
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And the release and accuracy on his shot is just stupid. But he doesn't play a flashy game. He goes to the net. He battles for pucks. He really looks so much like Tavares. Except he can skate at 18.
 
leafman101 said:
Yes. Matthews was the best player in a league of men this year. Laine wasn't even top 25 in ppg in Liiga this year.
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but isn't that somewhat mitigated by the fact that laine was in a much better league, is closer to a year younger than the same age, was right there amongst the league leaders in the 2nd half after the wjc, and was just named playoffs mvp?
 
zeke said:
but isn't that somewhat mitigated by the fact that laine was in a much better league, is closer to a year younger than the same age, was right there amongst the league leaders in the 2nd half after the wjc, and was just named playoffs mvp?
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Honestly, I don't think anything mitigates being the best player in one of the top mens leagues in the world at 18. Its practically unheard of.

Laine certainly closed the gap down the stretch, but I don't think that can discount what Matthews did this year. What more can you ask of Matthews?
 
I'm not sure about the no huge tools thing for Matthews. I've read articles where Crawford compares his shot to Sakic's. There's always I little tire pumping with these quotes, but that's pretty high praise to compare his shot to a guy with maybe the best wrister ever.
 
zeke said:
but isn't that somewhat mitigated by the fact that laine was in a much better league, is closer to a year younger than the same age, was right there amongst the league leaders in the 2nd half after the wjc, and was just named playoffs mvp?
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Liiga isn't much better than Swiss A. They're pretty widely considered if not equivalent, really close in overall quality. Laine's Liiga winning club had 1 ex NHL'er on it (backup goalie Mike Noronen), Matthews club in NLA had 4 (Nilsson, Shannon, MAB, Rundblad), a few more that were solid AHL players, and a few more that were good to really good CHL players in junior, and that isn't an outlier when compared with clubs around the league.

Liiga (aka, Finland) generates a lot more NHL talent than NLA (aka, Switzerland), so it's assumed that Liiga is better than NLA, but there's really very little difference in quality.
 
WellPlayed said:
I'm not sure about the no huge tools thing for Matthews. I've read articles where Crawford compares his shot to Sakic's. There's always I little tire pumping with these quotes, but that's pretty high praise to compare his shot to a guy with maybe the best wrister ever.
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Yeah, Zeke is pretty dead wrong on that. His skating, IQ, wrist shot, puck control, passing ability are all huge tools.
 
leafman101 said:
And the release and accuracy on his shot is just stupid. But he doesn't play a flashy game. He goes to the net. He battles for pucks. He really looks so much like Tavares. Except he can skate at 18.
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Also 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier at 18
 
number17 said:
EVERY SINGLE YEAR, the hockey media like to hype up the consensus 2nd or 3rd ranked prospect and that he may challenge for the #1 spot. Even in the last draft, when McDavid was clearly the 'can't miss' generational talent, people talked up Eichel as another generational talent, and that he may give McDavid a run for the $$.

1-2-3 will go Matthews, Laine and Puljujarrvi ... there is no question in my mind there won't be any surprises.
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but haven't they been right to do that much of the time?

2008 - Stamkos - Doughty
2009 - Tavares - Hedman
2010 - Hall - Seguin
2011 - RNH - Landeskog
2012 - Yakupov - Murray
2013 - MacKinnon - Barkov

I mean I think i flat out prefer those 2nd overalls.
 
Yeah maybe, but those preferable #2 picks are all dmen and centers. And in most cases I would say you could go either way talent wise (Seguin/Hall, Doughty/Stamkos, Tavares/Hedmen are all great players). In those cases aside from Hall (the winger) all those players are leading contending teams. So all things being equal I stick with the dmen and centers.
 
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zeke said:
but haven't they been right to do that much of the time?

2008 - Stamkos - Doughty
2009 - Tavares - Hedman
2010 - Hall - Seguin
2011 - RNH - Landeskog
2012 - Yakupov - Murray
2013 - MacKinnon - Barkov

I mean I think i flat out prefer those 2nd overalls.
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Yeah, but 3 of those drafts were Edmonton making retarded choices. The issues here is not the 2nd overall being better, it's Edmonton drafting like idiots.
 
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