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Leaf Rumours

msun30 said:
I don't know if I really buy that... According to Burke he found out from another GM that Phaneuf was being offered around, so the cat was definitely out of the bag. Perhaps Sutter could have gotten more teams into the fold to start a bidding war, but I don't believe that Phaneuf's availability was a big secret with only one or two teams privy to that information.

It sounds to me like the writers at the Calgary Sun are setting up a contingency to get heat off themselves for falling head over heels in favour of the deal after spending the past two years perpetuating the myth that Phaneuf is no good. They have seen the return -- and are finding out that the grass isn't always greener. At the end of the day the Flames have hugely downgraded their blueline, and the only real building-block type piece they received in the deal is a pending UFA who likely could have been obtained for a second rounder.

It was a disaster of a trade for Calgary and the whole Calgary media is looking really, really f'ing stupid for having supported that deal when it was made.
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This sounds like the more plausible scenario.
 
msun30 said:
I don't know if I really buy that... According to Burke he found out from another GM that Phaneuf was being offered around, so the cat was definitely out of the bag. Perhaps Sutter could have gotten more teams into the fold to start a bidding war, but I don't believe that Phaneuf's availability was a big secret with only one or two teams privy to that information.

It sounds to me like the writers at the Calgary Sun are setting up a contingency to get heat off themselves for falling head over heels in favour of the deal after spending the past two years perpetuating the myth that Phaneuf is no good. They have seen the return -- and are finding out that the grass isn't always greener. At the end of the day the Flames have hugely downgraded their blueline, and the only real building-block type piece they received in the deal is a pending UFA who likely could have been obtained for a second rounder.

It was a disaster of a trade for Calgary and the whole Calgary media is looking really, really f'ing stupid for having supported that deal when it was made.
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I think the complaint arises from the fact that Sutter didn't open the negotiations to all 29 GMs.

And that's more than valid. Burke should be keeping those discussions under wraps, but Sutter should be talking to anyone who will listen.

I just really don't want this deal to be publicized now as this huge rip-off for us. It'll make GMs even more wary of dealing with us, seeing the fall out from the trade for Sutter.

I keep thinking that if I were Burke, I'd have been holding separate negotiations with Pittsburgh for our remaining spare parts in a package for Staal.

It may be too tough to land another good young player now without giving up serious assets.
 
It was a horrible trade for Calgary.

Losing Mayers and Hagman was addition by subtraction; White and his 27 minutes per game aren't missed at all (in fact, have been drastically improved upon on account of now being given to the superior Phaneuf); they miss Stajan's consistency and two-way play but at the end of the day he is a replaceable part. Especially if Kadri can step into the lineup next season and contribute on the stats sheet.

And to think they also added a good prospect and a serviceable and much needed third liner/energy/penalty killer in the deal... What a trade.
 
And it hasn't really been discussed, but anyone think Sutter just had to find a way to clear some salary - not for cap reasons, but money reasons?

He gave up $7M in salaries that extend past next year for $3M that extends past next year and three FAs (two UFAs).

I won't be shocked at all if he lets Stajan walk after all this.

I'm not sure Stajan would stay anyway, to be honest. I'd expect him to try to come back closer to home and maybe try for a spot on the Sens for various reasons.
 
Actually, that has been discussed. And the argument doesn't hold up. Unless they let White walk then the salaries are essentially a wash -- $3mn for Hagman + $3-$3.5mn for White = $6-$6.5mn. Phaneuf is earning $6.5mn.

Pittsburgh won't trade Staal right now, and even if they were looking to deal him it wouldn't be for spare parts. Calgary is in a tough spot and it looked like Sutter panicked and made an irrational decision. Pittsburgh and Shero are not desperate at all. They just won the Cup. Why would they make a move that significantly shakes up the team?

And putting a negative spin on this deal, like you did, is ridiculous. It will have no bearing on future dealings with the Leafs. Arguing it would makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
 
msun30 said:
they miss Stajan's consistency and two-way play but at the end of the day he is a replaceable part. Especially if Kadri can step into the lineup next season and contribute on the stats sheet.
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An argument could be made that we're benefiting from the removal of Stajan, simply due to how good Bozak has looked with 1st line minutes.

Actually, that has been discussed. And the argument doesn't hold up. Unless they let White walk then the salaries are essentially a wash -- $3mn for Hagman + $3-$3.5mn for White = $6-$6.5mn. Phaneuf is earning $6.5mn.
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They also owed Sjorstrom 750K for next season, but your point remains.
 
An argument could be made that we're benefiting from the removal of Stajan, simply due to how good Bozak has looked with 1st line minutes.
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Keep in mind that Bozak was playing on a line while Stajan was here. Stajan was moved back on to that line in his last, or second last game here. I don't think there's really an argument here -- this team would look a lot better up front if Stajan were centering that second line and not Rickard Wallin (or even Grabovski).

I suppose it has opened a little more time for Bozak since now Wilson is basically forced to play him on the PP, but still, they could have accommodated both.

This isn't like losing Hagman, whose style of play tends to drag down his linemates.
 
I dunno, this team has looked an awful lot better since all those guys left........and Wallin has just as many points centering our 2nd line, as Stajan has playing alongside Iginla and on the top PP unit in Calgary.


And Bozak's got 5 points in 4 games since the move......and had 2 points in 8 games leading up to it.
 
Well, I think the big thing was getting those three *******s out of the room (Blake/Toskala/Hagman).

I don't think there is any correlation between Stajan's exit and Bozak's production over the past four games.

As for Wallin... come on.
 
msun30 said:
Actually, that has been discussed. And the argument doesn't hold up. Unless they let White walk then the salaries are essentially a wash -- $3mn for Hagman + $3-$3.5mn for White = $6-$6.5mn. Phaneuf is earning $6.5mn.
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They can easily trade White for a decent pick if they want. And if they resign him, there's no guarantee he'll get upwards of $3M. I think we might have overvalued him a bit over here. But we'll have to wait and see what they do with him after the season ends.

And putting a negative spin on this deal, like you did, is ridiculous. It will have no bearing on future dealings with the Leafs. Arguing it would makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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What are you talking about? I'm not putting any negative spin on the deal. I love the deal, you homo.

I'm pointing out that if GMs were a little fearful of dealing with Toronto before on a high end trade, then now, after seeing the negative press Sutter is getting, they'll be even more reluctant. That's a consequence of pulling off this rip, not a criticism of it.
 
Doesn't really matter actually. With one week of brilliance, we are now a really decent club. Holes abound, but all NHL teams are in the same boat.

AND put me down for a guy who DOES not want Kovalchuk. No more cap albatross. Lets settle right down and build within. We have Giggy, Kabby, Kadri, and Kessel AND Phaneuf. You know what. That is FIVE bigtime players imo. Great to build around. Good to watch and cheer for.
 
1) I think there might be some validity in some GMs not knowing about the deal - because, I mean, we know Sutter would never deal Phaneuf to, say, Edmonton or Vancouver. Just wouldn't happen.

2) The key to the deal being super lopsided is Hagman, and him being overrated. He's exactly the kind of player that gets overrated - great highlight package skill, super inconsistent, and more goals than assists. Oh, and it also helps that he wasn't a Leafs product. BecauseI agree with msun - this deal essentially boils down to Phaneuf for White and Hagman - and given that Hagman is easily replaceable, it essentially boils own to Phaneuf for White....and I love White, but he's no Phaneuf.

I miss Stajan, but he was UFA and getting Aulie back for him is a solid deal.

3) as for this Leafs' turnaround.....let's be honest, we all saw this team in the preseason. at least in the preseason games that Toskala didn't play in. This is the team we saw in preseason - full of kids, full of speed, and without horrific goaltending. We saw it then, and we were justifiably excited.....and then the regular season started, and we chose to ice a different team than the one that had us all excited.

we all knew this young exciting team was in there somewhere, even if this horrific season wore us down a bit.
 
It isn't just an injection of speed and the deletion of poor goaltending. There is a clear attitude shift with this team. Some of that is goaltending, some is getting a clear leader-type in Phaneuf into the locker room and a big part of it is deleting some of the jackasses from the roster that were clearly doing some damage to the team's morale.

I also think that Bozak is a much bigger piece to the puzzle than Wilson (or even his boosters such as myself) initially thought. We have seen Stalberg and Hanson look good in some instances, poor in others; but since Bozak entered the lineup we have seen a combination of smarts, skill and speed that was lacking up the middle before he was recalled.
 
players are human - when you get big names like Phaneuf and Giguere, no matter what you think of their recent play, that is flat out exciting. It goes straight to their legs.

Let's face it - the whole team had given up, and were just waiting for some moves to be made. You could tell that pretty easly - we were watching some of the worst leafs hockey I've flat out ever seen, going back as far as I can remember. It was godawful.

but then boom, massive changes including two huge name players coming into the lineup, and both quality leader types that came right in and grabbed the team by the scruff of the neck, and then a whole bunch of speed and enthusiasm injected with Bozak, Sjostrom, Hanson, Stalberg......that's one hell of a wake up call, and one hell of a fresh start for the whole team.

that being said, we can't underestimate the two massive improvements on the ice - 1) goaltending, which was by far and away the most soul-sucking aspect of this team before, and 2) the PP - which has been absolutely dynamite since Phaneuf was added to it, and not only have they been productive but they have looked dominant doing it. and I might even add a 3) Phaneuf has made it his mission every night to physically abuse the other team's best players, which has to make everyone feel a little ballsier.

and yes, Bozak is huge - he's easily the best centre the leafs have had this season.

I can't get too angry at what happened with him this year, because he flat out wasn't so impressive in the AHL.
 
Our vastly improved PK has had an uplifting effect as well.....something all three new faces have helped contribute too.
 
Perhaps the most enjoyable part about hooping the Flames in the Phaneuf trade.

Harper_and_Calga_482921artw.jpg
 
The fact Burke had to hear about Phaneuf's availability through 'another GM' and not from Sutter directly speaks volume about Sutter's incompetence with trading big name players.

Think about this - Burke actually inquired about Phaneuf early in the season, no more than 6 months ago. Phaneuf was unavailable at the time, but when he's available now, Sutter didn't even bother to call Burke and involve him in the bidding war. This is absolutely ridiculous!! You knew this GM showed interest in Phaneuf, why wouldn't you call him up and see if he's still interested and if so, what he can offer?

What if Burke never heard about it from another GM? Sutter might have got EVEN LESS than Hagman+White+Mayers+Stajan for Phaneuf!!

Sure the Calgary media got what they deserve for trashing Phaneuf and lowering his trade value (very much like what Toronto media did to McCabe), but Sutter did not do his best job to get the most for Phaneuf, and he should be criticized for that.
 
Didn't Burke say that Sutter called him? During the call Sutter never mentioned Phaneuf directly, but said that he was looking to deal a defenceman - and Burke got him talking about Phaneuf again.

The crap about a 29 team bidding war is just ridiculous.. there are maybe 3-4 teams in the league that would have the capspace (or budget) AND assets to make this deal happen - and I'd be pretty sure that Phaneuf wasn't being traded to a Western Conference team.
 
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