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Leaf Rumours

BG said:
James Neal
Jamie Benn
Patric Horqvist
Jakub Voracek
Michael Frolik
Dustin Brown
David Jones
Chris Stewart
David Perron
Tomas Fleischmann
Eric Fehr
Bryan Little
James Van Rymsdyk
Ryan Clowe
Devon Setoguchi
Logan Couture
Click to expand...

Nice list but I wouldn't want a 1-1 with almost anyone on this list. I've got a hard on for JVR, others Benn or Clowe, but still 1for1 not a good return.
 
BG said:
James Neal
Jamie Benn
Patric Horqvist
Jakub Voracek
Michael Frolik
Dustin Brown
David Jones
Chris Stewart
David Perron
Tomas Fleischmann
Eric Fehr
Bryan Little
James Van Rymsdyk
Ryan Clowe
Devon Setoguchi
Logan Couture
Click to expand...

There's some widely varying quality in that list. I don't have the time right now to check all their icetimes, so I'm assuming for now you're correct that those guys are 5th or below on the depth chart.

In any case, not too many guys there I would trade Kabs straight up for.
 
Good lord that's a grim list.

Stewart,& Voracek are the only names on that list I'd even be close to interested for as centrepieces in a Kaberle deal.

You know that despite the slump after the olympic break, Kaberle scored more points than most of the forwards you listed, right?

Stewart - 64
Clowe - 57
Jones - 57* (16 in 23games paced)
Brown - 56
Neal - 55
Hornqvist - 51
Fleischmann - 51
Voracek - 50
Kaberle - 49
Perron - 47
Frolik - 43
Benn - 41
Fehr - 39
Setoguchi - 36
JVR - 35
Little - 34
Couture - 30* (9 in 25)

As much as I can see the argument for some of these guys being very young (20-22) there is actually a cautionary tale on your list already. Dustin Brown, as solid a winger as he is, scored 60 points as a 23 yr old...and many expected him to be a "break out player" during the following summer. He hasn't though (mainly due to a lack of high end tools) hasn't, and has yet to even match his 23 yr old production since then.

The only kids I see with high end tools on that list are Voracek, JVR, & Stewart.
 
Perhaps not one for one, but he stands out on that list. And I'm not so sure the Blues would trade him for Kabs straight up, either.
 
I don't know if I'd say that he stands out on that list after looking at a few other guys on it. Frolik, Benn, Neal...hell, even Little is comparable, and that's beyond the guys who really stand out imo: Stewart, and Voracek.
 
Leafovic said:
Every year you keep getting proven wrong on this...every year elite players provide explanations that they want to go to this or that team for reasons that have very little to do with money... family reasons, location of that said city, players on that team, their role on a team, competitiveness of the team etc..yet every year you keep harping out the same old non-nonsensical point that its just about the money.

The fact is, the money stuff matters very little to the best players, the elite guys, that we actually want...it matters much more to the less skilled guys, less producing guys that keep getting over-paid..and yes, in that instance, that is how teams sign the likes of Komi. A player that knows he is getting overpaid will go to the highest bidder. It's their chance to get that contract they don't deserve. A player that is a winner and that has confidence in himself looks at other factors more. He should get similarly paid everywhere.

And the reason these guys are winners in the first place is that they go to the places that they can win.
Click to expand...


ya, TB was super awesome last year.
 
Volcanologist said:
There's some widely varying quality in that list. I don't have the time right now to check all their icetimes, so I'm assuming for now you're correct that those guys are 5th or below on the depth chart.

In any case, not too many guys there I would trade Kabs straight up for.
Click to expand...

I seem to recall talk of a first rounder as well.
 
MindzEye said:
Good lord that's a grim list.

Stewart,& Voracek are the only names on that list I'd even be close to interested for as centrepieces in a Kaberle deal.

You know that despite the slump after the olympic break, Kaberle scored more points than most of the forwards you listed, right?

Stewart - 64
Clowe - 57
Jones - 57* (16 in 23games paced)
Brown - 56
Neal - 55
Hornqvist - 51
Fleischmann - 51
Voracek - 50
Kaberle - 49
Perron - 47
Frolik - 43
Benn - 41
Fehr - 39
Setoguchi - 36
JVR - 35
Little - 34
Couture - 30* (9 in 25)

As much as I can see the argument for some of these guys being very young (20-22) there is actually a cautionary tale on your list already. Dustin Brown, as solid a winger as he is, scored 60 points as a 23 yr old...and many expected him to be a "break out player" during the following summer. He hasn't though (mainly due to a lack of high end tools) hasn't, and has yet to even match his 23 yr old production since then.

The only kids I see with high end tools on that list are Voracek, JVR, & Stewart.
Click to expand...

Neal, Stewart, Voracek or Brown would all be very good value for the Leafs IMO.
 
MindzEye said:
You know that despite the slump after the olympic break, Kaberle scored more points than most of the forwards you listed, right?
Click to expand...

All of the players on that list can outscore Kabs by a healthy margin with proper ice-time, and that's BEFORE they hit their primes.
 
BG said:
All of the players on that list can outscore Kabs by a healthy margin with proper ice-time, and that's BEFORE they hit their primes.
Click to expand...

and you're falling into the exact same trap I outlined in my post. You expect, unequivocally, that all these young players are going to improve significantly due to experience and opportunity increases.

This simply isn't the case, as the Dustin Brown example suggests.

To say that all the players on the list can do it (when the list included a 25 yr old rookie for **** sakes) is plain hilarious.
 
Getting a young 2nd liner with the potential to produce at a 1st line rate is a fair return for Kaberle. And some of those guys on that list fall under this description.
 
MindzEye said:
and you're falling into the exact same trap I outlined in my post. You expect, unequivocally, that all these young players are going to improve significantly due to experience and opportunity increases.

This simply isn't the case, as the Dustin Brown example suggests.

To say that all the players on the list can do it (when the list included a 25 yr old rookie for **** sakes) is plain hilarious.
Click to expand...

Most players in a top 6 role (including decent PP time) should be able to crack 50+ pts. A good chunk of that list has already done it, and the rest have the pedigree to follow... and all are playing on their teams second lines.

Who on that list doesn't project to be a top 6 forward in this league? Which player would you bet on NEVER cracking 50pts?

I was asked to produce a list of "5th/6th" forwards that I'd be satisfied in return for Kabs (and a first rounder). I'll admit that the results were quick and dirty - but it's still a decent list.
 
My issue is simple...a 50 pt defender is worth so much more than a 50 pt forward to a teams offence that saying that you'd be happy with a 50 pt kid is selling Kaberle short.

Versteeg fits the description you're outlining there...#5-6 forward, capable of 50+ points, and young...would you really have traded Kaberle to get him?

Too many people fall into "he's young, so he'll get better" mind set, when a very large percentage of young players top out their offensive production (or come quite close to doing so) at a young age.
 
It's amazing how people consistently gloss over the fact that Kaberle provides more offence than half the names who have been mentioned as good trade targets for him.
 
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