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Leaf Rumours

Even though I am not as high on this guy as most (Schenn), maybe LA does the trade with Kaberle and Versteeg going to LA and Schenn and a draft pick coming back?
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Versteeg >> Stoll, and significantly younger.

Gunnarson is a very good dman with big upside.

Sjostrom is a good role player, and Giggy is an excellent insurance policy in goal.
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what the heck is bothering me?

Stop your madness, stop trying to trade 5 dimes for a 10 dollar bill
 
JaysCyYoung said:
The problem with JVR is that power forwards are notoriously unreliable, and so you're looking at three possible outcomes here:

Worst case - Chris Gratton
Likely case - Nathan Horton
Optimal case - John Leclair
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except, of course, that JVR isn't really a power forward - not in size, not in style.

he's somewhat tall, but that's about it.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
There's no realistic way of getting Schenn for Versteeg. Not in any sane mind's universe let alone one of the singularly most patient GM's in the league in Dean Lombardi. Look how many years he has been content for Los Angeles to miss the post-season.
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agreed.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
Getting JVR would be a ****ing COUP. He has John Leclaire-esque top-end power forward potential. People tend to overlook the fact that power forwards develop incredibly slowly and tend to stagnate offensively over their first three or four seasons in the league (a trend which one can see with Leclair, Todd Bertuzzi, Shane Doan, Jarome Iginla, Keith Tkachuck and other elite names).

But make no mistake: this kid could become a 30/60 player very soon. Even if he only turns into Nathan Horton that's a very good hockey player and a much more valuable asset and better fit for this roster in the near-future than Versteeg.
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Meh. The only thing JVR has on his resume is being a high pick in an awful draft.

and he's not a 230-240 pounder like Leclair or Horton, he's a 200-210 pounder. He also plays a speed-oriented game, not a power game. The argument "it takes longer for power forwards to develop" doesn't really apply so well in this case.

He's a good young player, but looking for "elite" potential from him is a stretch, IMO.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
The problem with JVR is that power forwards are notoriously unreliable, and so you're looking at three possible outcomes here:

Worst case - Chris Gratton
Likely case - Nathan Horton
Optimal case - John Leclair
Click to expand...

I don't see Horton's size or hands in JVR, to be honest.

I see more Blake Wheeler. I see some Jeff Carter potential in him on the high-end, but that's a bit of a longshot I think.
 
zeke said:
and he's not a 230-240 pounder like Leclair or Horton, he's a 200-210 pounder. He also plays a speed-oriented game, not a power game. The argument "it takes longer for power forwards to develop" doesn't really apply so well in this case.
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that argument applies because those guys often need 1) time to fill out and 2) time to learn how to utilize that size once they have it.

see: nik antropov. when antropov first came over, he was a finesse player. he needed to learn how to skate. then he needed to pack pounds on to his wiry frame.

JVR has the skating down. but he still hasn't filled out. he will, though.

there's no way that a 6'3 hockey player stays at 200-210. no way.

He's a good young player, but looking for "elite" potential from him is a stretch, IMO.
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this i agree with.
 
JVR projects to be a PPG player at his high water mark. I don't see him as truly elite (i.e. 100+ pt seasons). I think pts wise more like Mikko Koivu.
 
If and i stress if JVR si being dangled...then its a coup...but frankly unless it's for a legit upgrade on the flyers roster ( in goal, vokoun) then i dont see it making any sense
 
I guess the thing here is that I'm not surprised to hear that Philly might be dangling him (even if it isn't true) - he's a dissappoinment of a draft pick right now, and the fact that along with not being that good right now, he's also fairly one dimensional and not exactly a 110% gritty type player at the moment....well, I'm not shocked to hear his name in trade rumours.
 
zeke said:
I guess the thing here is that I'm not surprised to hear that Philly might be dangling him (even if it isn't true) - he's a dissappoinment of a draft pick right now, and the fact that along with not being that good right now, he's also fairly one dimensional and not exactly a 110% gritty type player at the moment....well, I'm not shocked to hear his name in trade rumours.
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I could buy it too....but not for a guy like Versteeg....the Pjhilly forwards are good enough where you dont add to it at the risk of giving up a kid liek JVR. For goaltending though...maybe....an no...not GIguere.
 
zeke said:
I guess the thing here is that I'm not surprised to hear that Philly might be dangling him (even if it isn't true) - he's a dissappoinment of a draft pick right now, and the fact that along with not being that good right now, he's also fairly one dimensional and not exactly a 110% gritty type player at the moment....well, I'm not shocked to hear his name in trade rumours.
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can't disagree with that, although part of the problem might simply be of opportunity and the role they want him to play as a first liner.

philadelphia doesn't really balance the units (probably, in part, because of JVR, or at least their hopes for him).

in any event, he's clearly on the third line, and we all know that philadelphia likes its third and fourth lines to play physical, take-no-prisoners hockey. that isn't his style. it doesn't mean he can't develop into a power forward. it doesn't mean he won't fulfill his potential.

but he's buried a bit. he doesn't get an awful lot of time on special teams. and he's only 7th amongst forwards in ice time AND ES ice time.

in any event, he's being dangled because philadelhpia has a real shot to win, the cards seem to be stacked in their favour, and he should be able to address a shortcoming.

what about kaberle for JVR and carle?
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Versteeg >> Stoll, and significantly younger.

Gunnarson is a very good dman with big upside.

Sjostrom is a good role player, and Giggy is an excellent insurance policy in goal.
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Stoll is better than Versteeg. He has just as much quality playoff experience and he's a big, strong two-way centre with a 70 point campaign under his belt. And he's still in his prime years.

Gunnarsson is a limited-ceiling prospect who will turn into a fourth or fifth defenceman if he develops properly. There simply isn't the upside there that Los Angeles would be looking for without even taking into consideration the fact that the Kings have one of the two or three deepest prospect pools in the NHL on defence.

Voynov, Hickey, Johnson, Forbort, and obviously a young Norris-quality Doughty (at age 20) are all significantly better. Gunnar is useless to them.

Sjostrom is what he is: an offensively inept fourth-line grinder who isn't particularly intimidating despite his attempts at physicality. Los Angeles can find a much more serviceable replacement in the minor leagues and they already have a quality 20 year-old Kyle Clifford who is better at Sjostrom's role already as a rookie.

They have no need for Giguere at all.
 
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