PlayerToBeNamedLater
Well-known member
Phaneuf was the only dmen in the league to be top 12 in points, minutes played and hits.
Leaf Rumours
- Thread starter Hoss
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PlayerToBeNamedLater
Well-known member
Yup.
Among dmen who played a minimum of 18 es minutes, only seabrook, bouwmeester and mcdonagh faced stiffer competition.
Among dmen who played a minimum of 18 es minutes, only seabrook, bouwmeester and mcdonagh faced stiffer competition.
Preston_Mizzi
Banned
That's probably because Pietrangelo is awesome and probably a top 5-7 d in the league. As for Phaneuf, he's not the horse everyone thought he'd be when he first entered the league, but he's still a top 15 or so defensman in the league, so by that definition he's definitely a #1 d. There is a class of about 5-7 that are clear #1 shutdown horses that every team would kill to have, but after that there are about 15 d who are hovering around the same tier.
Preston_Mizzi
Banned
Not sure if you're comparing him to guys like Letang or Chara, but if you mean the Chara types I would say that he's arguably the biggest reason his team is a contender. If Phaneuf was in the top tier of d in the league, we would at the very least be in the playoffs every year.
But if you mean the Letangs in the league, then I fully agree. They are definitely around the same tier.
PlayerToBeNamedLater
Well-known member
Chara didn't make the playoffs until Thomas emerged.
He missed the playoffs in his first year in Boston when the team got ordinary goaltending.
He missed the playoffs in his first year in Boston when the team got ordinary goaltending.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
For the sake of argument and discussion, this is how I would personally tier the top defenders in the league
Tier One - The Elite
Chara
Weber
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Karlsson & Pietrangelo could pretty easily slip from this group next season, but last year they showed that they belong imo
Tier Two - Top end #1 defenders with no major holes in their games
Suter
Letang
Keith
Phaneuf
Boyle
Edler
Doughty
Tier Three - Legit #1 defenders with more apparent holes in their game
Wideman
Byfuglien
Campbell
Enstrom
Yandle
Seabrook
Wisniewski
McDonagh
Myers
By the way...it just feels weird to make a list like this and not having Lidstrom at the top of it....
Tier One - The Elite
Chara
Weber
Karlsson
Pietrangelo
Karlsson & Pietrangelo could pretty easily slip from this group next season, but last year they showed that they belong imo
Tier Two - Top end #1 defenders with no major holes in their games
Suter
Letang
Keith
Phaneuf
Boyle
Edler
Doughty
Tier Three - Legit #1 defenders with more apparent holes in their game
Wideman
Byfuglien
Campbell
Enstrom
Yandle
Seabrook
Wisniewski
McDonagh
Myers
By the way...it just feels weird to make a list like this and not having Lidstrom at the top of it....
I was refering to Letang and Pietrangelo
Preston_Mizzi
Banned
Good list.
I'd probably put Suter in the top tier.. We'll see how he does without Weber for a full season, but it seemed like he was great any time Weber was out hurt and Weber struggled when Suter was out. Smallish sample sizes though.. so we'll see. I'd also maybe throw Doughty in the top tier after his playoffs even though he was kind of underwhelming during the season for the past couple of years. I think he's above a guy like Phaneuf at this point, but definitely a shade below the Chara's. I'd put McDonagh in the 2nd tier.. I'm really high on him. Great player. Other than that, it's a solid list.. I'm just nitpicking. Good post.
Preston_Mizzi
Banned
And being a number 1 d on a cup winning team is kind of a big deal. I'd say that's a pretty good reason to put Doughty ahead of Phaneuf.
leafman101
Well-known member
Its so subjective. Does it really matter if a guy is the 8th best dman in the league or the 14th best? Who gives a shit. Everyone is going to have a different list, but no one can deny that Dion belongs up there in the group of the top dmen in the league.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
I'd put Visnovski in that 3rd tier, and Girardi
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
and Green in the 2nd tier
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Cheers
To address the nitpicking
- Suter's top end offensive ability keeps him out of the elite tier imo. I think Suter's 46 points from last year is pretty much as big an offensive impact as he's going to have. Weber is just more toolsy offensively, I can see the potential for more offensive growth there.
- It's hard to put Doughty in that tier after the last 2 seasons he's had. He was a complete stud in the playoffs, and is pretty likely to end up in the elite tier at some point, but 2 disappointing regular seasons in a row are what they are.
- The argument can be made for McD to be in the 2nd tier...still can't believe Montreal gave that guy up for Scott Gomez. But, he has the distinct pleasure of playing in front of a goalie that will tend to make a lot of defenders look good (see the Dan Girardi epic over rating). I wouldn't be shocked if he had another really strong season and cemented himself as a legit top 15 workhorse this season though.
To address the nitpicking
- Suter's top end offensive ability keeps him out of the elite tier imo. I think Suter's 46 points from last year is pretty much as big an offensive impact as he's going to have. Weber is just more toolsy offensively, I can see the potential for more offensive growth there.
- It's hard to put Doughty in that tier after the last 2 seasons he's had. He was a complete stud in the playoffs, and is pretty likely to end up in the elite tier at some point, but 2 disappointing regular seasons in a row are what they are.
- The argument can be made for McD to be in the 2nd tier...still can't believe Montreal gave that guy up for Scott Gomez. But, he has the distinct pleasure of playing in front of a goalie that will tend to make a lot of defenders look good (see the Dan Girardi epic over rating). I wouldn't be shocked if he had another really strong season and cemented himself as a legit top 15 workhorse this season though.
Preston_Mizzi
Banned
Yeah, it's best to separate them in tiers. The gap between the 8th best and the 15th best is pretty minute and pointless to argue about. But it's pretty clear that there is group of 5-7 d who are a tier above Phaneuf at this point.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Nope, and nope
Metalleaf
New member
Doughty's career was pretty ****ing similar to Phaneuf's. Including the drop in offensive production and the large contract that everyone questioned. Doughty had excellent goaltending, something Phaneuf hasn't had the luxury of.