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Leaf Rumours

nonis would be crazy to not make that trade. unfortunately i think that thornton would cost more htan that (not a whole lot, but i don't think a bad contract like liles comes back, and if it does it'd certainly up the price). but if that's the cost then why the hell wouldn't you make that trade?

let's not act like thornton is in the twilight of his career. he is still a point per game player. he is a year younger than sundin was during the first year back from the 04-05 lockout. he is 7 and 9 years younger than jagr and selanne. this guy has plenty of mileage left in him.
 
mbow30 said:
nonis would be crazy to not make that trade. unfortunately i think that thornton would cost more htan that (not a whole lot, but i don't think a bad contract like liles comes back, and if it does it'd certainly up the price). but if that's the cost then why the hell wouldn't you make that trade?
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Nonis was unequivocal that he will not trade futures for old players. Thornton is going to be 34 years old this summer. We can get our crystal balls out and predict how long he'll be useful, but it's a mugs game and there is absolutely no guarantee or high probability that he'll be great for much longer.

Leaf fans never seem to learn about coughing up first round picks and spend every year drooling over UFAs that never arrive. I hope Nonis doesn't betray his words, but I'm incredibly pleased that we now have a GM who is not interested in mortgaging the future.
 
hockeylover said:
9. Toronto: the Maple Leafs will not make a move that in any way jeopardizes playoff chances. "They are going for it," another GM said. It's tough, though, for Toronto to take on any salary until Perry's future is known. If he hits the market, they'll be involved. They can't destroy their flexibility.
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I guess now that Perry is off the table, Dave can blow his brains out "going for it." What are they going for, exactly? The playoffs?

It may or may not be indicative of what he'll do but Nonis never made much of any deadline deals in his four years in Vancouver.
 
BeLeafer said:
Nonis was unequivocal that he will not trade futures for old players. Thornton is going to be 34 years old this summer. We can get our crystal balls out and predict how long he'll be useful, but it's a mugs game and there is absolutely no guarantee or high probability that he'll be great for much longer.

Leaf fans never seem to learn about coughing up first round picks and spend every year drooling over UFAs that never arrive. I hope Nonis doesn't betray his words, but I'm incredibly pleased that we now have a GM who is not interested in mortgaging the future.
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usually the sure thing ends up being better than the mystery box.

the leafs have stockpiled several youngsters. when you consider that equation you cannot leave out the players who are already on the roster. it's great to be committed to the future, but with phaneuf, kessel and lupul in place you already have pieces that you hope and dream your draft picks turn out to be. factor in the contributions of jvr, kadri, franson, frattin and hopefully gardiner and rielly and i'm not sure what else there is to wait for. the future is basically now. the odds of a kid like finn being better than what we got are nil. colborne too. maybe a pick ends up being a special player but by the 20th pick (or thereabouts) the odds of drafting a player of that caliber have diminished considerably.

the best gms don't win by simply being patient. they do it by being smart. when the right player comes around they pounce. you generally don't win simply by sitting on your haunches. you have to be aggressive sometimes, too.

i mean, the habs didn't get lafleur because they were patiently stockpiling picks -- they got him because pollack went after him ruthlessly like a pit bull. and just look at lou and how he got stevens and kovalcuk.
 
mbow30 said:
usually the sure thing ends up being better than the mystery box.
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This is the refrain I hear every time the Leafs give up their first rounders. This is about now at the expense of building a long-term contender. I am genuinely surprised to still hear this after what has transpired over the past decade with these cough up the pick for the sure bet deals.

the leafs have stockpiled several youngsters. when you consider that equation you cannot leave out the players who are already on the roster. it's great to be committed to the future, but with phaneuf, kessel and lupul in place you already have pieces that you hope and dream your draft picks turn out to be. factor in the contributions of jvr, kadri, franson, frattin and hopefully gardiner and rielly and i'm not sure what else there is to wait for. the future is basically now. the odds of a kid like finn being better than what we got are nil. colborne too. maybe a pick ends up being a special player but by the 20th pick (or thereabouts) the odds of drafting a player of that caliber have diminished considerably.
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I don't disagree with the idea that the core is coming along and will need the missing pieces filled within the next few years to compete in the playoffs. I do, however, strongly disagree with this line of thinking. It is based on the idea that there's just one window on the horizon. That's exactly what you get when you continually cough up your first rounders. A long shot window once a decade or so.

the best gms don't win by simply being patient. they do it by being smart. when the right player comes around they pounce. you generally don't win simply by sitting on your haunches. you have to be aggressive sometimes, too.

i mean, the habs didn't get lafleur because they were patiently stockpiling picks -- they got him because pollack went after him ruthlessly like a pit bull. and just look at lou and how he got stevens and kovalcuk.
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The Habs absolutely got Lafleur because Pollock stockpiled picks. He was selected with the first round pick of the Califonia Golden Seals.

As for Stevens, he was acquired due to a quirk in the previous CBA. It was because the Blues signed Shanahan that they got him. But this does indeed involve a tale about first rounders. Shanahan was acquired by the Devils in the first round. The Blues, in part, had to compensate with Stevens because they had already dealt away their first rounder that year. Whatever the case, the Devils never would have got Stevens if they didn't hold onto their first rounders - the asset exchanged was a first round pick.
 
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my mistake on stevens -- for some reason thought he was signed and the devils had to give up shanahan.

as for lafleur -- the habs traded for the seals pick to get lafleur, and then gave up assets to the kings to make sure they got him. they were extremely aggressive in pursuit of lafleur.
 
:sarcasm You guys could really use a good goal scoring D man like say Beauchemin??? Yes??? Dude got two goals just tonight and is a real work horse....:smilielol5::smilielol5:
 
:smilewinkgrin: But seriously folks, you won't go any place with Randy. If he doesn't like a player, he will run him into the ground. It isn't about what or who is good for the team, it's all about who Randy likes and dislikes. He tears the players down to the point they can't produce. Good player get far less ice time than bad players he happens to like and that is just what is going on right now with your team. Make all the trades you want, Randy isn't going to change and so you are just spinning your wheels like if you had your car in two feet of mud. Trust me on this...
 
Why?? How did you guys get better??? You have got to wake up and smell the sour puss you have destroying your team.
 
Randy helped got you a cup so he did something right. Unless of course you think a pylon could have been behind the bench and you still would have won.

Do we really have to explain that Lupul and Gardiner will benefit us more then Beauchemin in the long run. It's pretty self explanatory imo
 
mbow30 said:
my mistake on stevens -- for some reason thought he was signed and the devils had to give up shanahan.

as for lafleur -- the habs traded for the seals pick to get lafleur, and then gave up assets to the kings to make sure they got him. they were extremely aggressive in pursuit of lafleur.
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For sure, but it's exactly the kind of aggressiveness that builds long term contenders - they aggressively stockpiled picks and would not have got him otherwise. The trade to the kings was unloading a vet and they got a 2nd round pick back in addition to some marginal players. They used that pick to select Larry Robinson.

Pollock was able to pull two HoF players out of the draft with picks he acquired by unloading veteran talent. All the while, the Habs were contending away.
 
Veca said:
:smilewinkgrin: But seriously folks, you won't go any place with Randy. If he doesn't like a player, he will run him into the ground. It isn't about what or who is good for the team, it's all about who Randy likes and dislikes. He tears the players down to the point they can't produce. Good player get far less ice time than bad players he happens to like and that is just what is going on right now with your team. Make all the trades you want, Randy isn't going to change and so you are just spinning your wheels like if you had your car in two feet of mud. Trust me on this...
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Ducks fans are the most spoiled fans of all time. Seriously. Never have I heard fans complain about guys (Burke, Carlyle) who brought them a cup so much. As a fan of a team that's never won in my lifetime, it's really infuriating.
 
Compared to the terrible coaches we have had (wilson, maurice) Carlyle is doing a fantastic job. Do we love everything he is doing.... of course not but i do not want to hit him with a shovel which is something I couldn't say under Wilson and Maurice.

As for the Beauch trade..... you love the player you go and he is doing what you hoped he would. We got a top line winger and one of the better young dmen around, call it a win win if you want but it is easier to find a player like beauch than it is lupul or gardiner.
 
Carlyle took the Ducks to a Cup. You can't take a team any farther than that. Boudreau has never come remotely close to taking his team past the 2nd round, nevermind all the way. And you are talking about coaching some elite teams there.

Carlyle is one of the very best coaches around.
 
As for Beauch, I'd much rather have Gardiner in the lineup right now than Beauch. And that is completely ignoring the best player in the deal.
 
Veca said:
:smilewinkgrin: But seriously folks, you won't go any place with Randy. If he doesn't like a player, he will run him into the ground. It isn't about what or who is good for the team, it's all about who Randy likes and dislikes. He tears the players down to the point they can't produce. Good player get far less ice time than bad players he happens to like and that is just what is going on right now with your team. Make all the trades you want, Randy isn't going to change and so you are just spinning your wheels like if you had your car in two feet of mud. Trust me on this...
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I like ice time balanced so it may piss some on here but i prefer that..Keeps best players more fresh so they can be more effective. I remember that year when he got fired, his team looked like they were giving up on him. Everyone was lazy and your goalie had to stand on his head. You can tell he's hard on the players but i kinda like that too. These players get paid very well so i don't feel bad about that(especially if they deserve it). So far i haven't made up my mind yet because he's done some things i really like and few things i really hate.

For a defensive coach our team is still not playing well defensively. He definitely likes some players more than others and has made at least 2 bad calls in Kostka and Holzer(still think Fraser is a keeper as a 5-6 guy and good PK guy). Not playing Gardiner is also something i hate about him. The team's PK is very good and we have been scoring goals until recently so those have been positives. Nazem Kadri is playing well under Carlyle so that's another one. Still too early imo but he'll get more time from me to see if he eventually gets things right.

As for him winning in Anaheim. I give more credit to Burke for bringing in some great players. I mean, that team was stacked with talent so even though he deserves some credit they had a very good shot at winning it anyways.
 
last year was the first time in 13 years of coaching that a randy carlyle coached team has finished below .500.

it was only the 3rd time, in those 13 years, that his team failed to make the playoffs (the other two times -- he coached the 96-97 manitoba moose team to a 16-14-2 finish after it went 16-26-8 under jean perron; in 09-10 the ducks finished with 89 points. selanne, getzlaf and lupul all missed significant time to injury).

the guy is one of the best coaches in the game and has proven that.
 
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