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Leaf Rumours

What's fun is how this offseason is turning out.

A bunch of big names being bought out purely due to necessity, and creating some older elite UFAs in the process.

Trades seem about to explode too.

I do hope that Nonis doesn't go crazy. We have an awesome core that I really would prefer not to mess with. There are guys who are done with their contracts and should just be let go like Bozak and MacA, but leave all the main young pieces in place. Trading Gardiner would be a mistake. He's proven that he can be big time clutch when needed. Trade Reilly for an equivalent center prospect who can step in immediately, and then just fine tune with a couple of pieces like Clarkson. There's no reason to rock the boat or mess with team chemistry more than we need to.
 
Montana said:
It was pretty funny to see how much your opinion of Phaneuf changed from when he was on Calgary, to when we got him....
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yeah, back then Phaneuf was the kind of amazing young talent that the crappy Leafs' players could never dream of being equal to.

funny for sure.
 
leafman101 said:
I'm talking about next offseason. Letang is signed for this year.
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I do understand that.

In fairness though, how do you possibly know what the Pens cap situation is like next offseason?? They have a pile of players to re-sign this off-season yet.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
You suggested that Letang's numbers were inflated by playing with Crosby and Malkin. In jest, I asked what wing he was playing on since I think they would have had a negligible impact on his point totals as a defenceman.
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Just the PP time alone I would think would help Letangs numbers. You think Letang would have the same career numbers had he played with the predators or the wild?
 
JaysCyYoung said:
You suggested that Letang's numbers were inflated by playing with Crosby and Malkin. In jest, I asked what wing he was playing on since I think they would have had a negligible impact on his point totals as a defenceman.
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That's ridiculous and you know it.

By virtue of being on the ice with those two guys so much, you can be certain that his numbers receive a definite jolt than if he played on say Florida for instance.
 
Cojo said:
I do understand that.

In fairness though, how do you possibly know what the Pens cap situation is like next offseason?? They have a pile of players to re-sign this off-season yet.
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Well sure it will change a bit, but the point is that right now they have $26+ million in cap space, which will likely be more with a cap increase, and literally all of their top players signed except for Letang (Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, Martin, Fleury). That is a ton of cap space and flexibility, and they won't have trouble signing Letang if they want to.
 
Kritter said:
Just the PP time alone I would think would help Letangs numbers. You think Letang would have the same career numbers had he played with the predators or the wild?
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LeafOfFaith said:
That's ridiculous and you know it.

By virtue of being on the ice with those two guys so much, you can be certain that his numbers receive a definite jolt than if he played on say Florida for instance.
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Someone on here a while ago posted a very revealing study that illustrated how little an impact even elite players typically have on their linemates' numbers. There are exceptions, but even elite players like Crosby and Malkin don't inflate their teammates' totals to the degree that most people think they do.

Letang has been an elite offensive producer from junior onwards.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
Someone on here a while ago posted a very revealing study that illustrated how little an impact even elite players typically have on their linemates' numbers. There are exceptions, but even elite players like Crosby and Malkin don't inflate their teammates' totals to the degree that most people think they do.

Letang has been an elite offensive producer from junior onwards.
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I find that hard to believe Jays.
Pretty sure most of the players that played with Gretzky and Mario had their best statistical seasons playing with them.
Also, Crosby and Malkin are more than "elite", Crosby is a generational talent you can lump in with Gretzky,Lemieux,Lafleur and Orr.... All those guys inflated their teammates numbers, I don't even think there is any merit to even argue that point.
 
You're right.

It was entirely coincidental that Letang put up 120 points in his final 100 junior games as a defenceman. He is clearly reliant entirely on Crosby and Malkin for his points and it has nothing to do with him being a dominant offensive player himself.

Your arguments are better served for wingers like Kunitz and Neal rather than play-making defenders like Letang that actually generate their own offence.
 
zeke said:
It would be fun to get Letang, just to see people realize that Phaneuf is better than him.
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That's an interesting point.

I like Letang a lot.

But is Phaneuf better than Letang?

I'd like to see Letang play in Toronto where he doesn't have Crosby and Malkin that can hold on to the puck majority of the times, and he has to be under more fierce forechecking pressure that Phaneuf's used to.

Letang definitely doesn't have the physical game that Phaneuf brings.

But does Phaneuf have the brain-cramp moments that Phaneuf also have? Especially when his forwards aren't good at puck possession?

It sure is interesting.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
You're right.

It was entirely coincidental that Letang put up 120 points in his final 100 junior games as a defenceman. He is clearly reliant entirely on Crosby and Malkin for his points and it has nothing to do with him being a dominant offensive player himself.

Your arguments are better served for wingers like Kunitz and Neal rather than play-making defenders like Letang that actually generate their own offence.
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I am not arguing whether or not Letang is play making defenseman.

Sorry Jays, I dont have the desire to argue about whether or not Letang benefits from playing with Crosby and Malkin. He does, plain and simple. If you think Letang would generate the same point total while playing with Mark Letestu,Brandon Dubinsky,Cam Atkinson and the rest of the boys in Columbus......
 
Kritter said:
I am not arguing whether or not Letang is play making defenseman.

Sorry Jays, I dont have the desire to argue about whether or not Letang benefits from playing with Crosby and Malkin. He does, plain and simple. If you think Letang would generate the same point total while playing with Mark Letestu,Brandon Dubinsky,Cam Atkinson and the rest of the boys in Columbus......
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You can take any logical deduction to its extreme conclusion by arguing for the extreme end of the spectrum, but that doesn't detract from the general validity of the statement.

If what you are saying held true for most cases, it would be apparent that Dion Phaneuf's declining point totals surrounded by an infinitely better offensive cast in Toronto don't agree with your hypothesis.
 
JaysCyYoung said:
You can take any logical deduction to its extreme conclusion by arguing for the extreme end of the spectrum, but that doesn't detract from the general validity of the statement.

If what you are saying held true for most cases, it would be apparent that Dion Phaneuf's declining point totals surrounded by an infinitely better offensive cast in Toronto don't agree with your hypothesis.
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If Phaneuf played in pittsburgh with Crosby and Letang and on the top PP unit with them, then yes, his point totals would be better than when he played in Calgary. That is what I am saying. I said nothing about any defenceman going from one team to another marginally better offensive team.
 
Kritter said:
If Phaneuf played in pittsburgh with Crosby and Letang and on the top PP unit with them, the yes, his point totals would be better than when he played in Calgary. That is what I am saying. I said nothing about any defenceman going from one team to another marginally better offensive team.
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And I don't think that would be the case.

You are simply assuming that they would magically improve his numbers when there is no evidence to point to that. There are many players that go from prolific offensive teams and continue to produce on poorer teams when traded, and cases of players that go from poor offensive teams to significantly more productive teams and not see much of an increase in their totals.

You can't just assume that Letang would fall off appreciably outside of Pittsburgh. His numbers at every level point to a defenceman who would be productive wherever he played.
 
PlayerToBeNamedLater said:
DarrenDreger I doubt there are many teams as motivated to make deals as the Leafs are. Nonis is virtually willing to listen to offers on everyone.
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They have already been told already Darren. And I am privy to most of them. Gardiner is our best player in a long,long time. Now most teams would keep such a player, but the Leafs.................

Tan a Bum, freaked out after the 4-1 giveaway by the Leafs and gave an ultimatum. NHL Goaltender, number one center who can win a faceoff, get rid of Phaneuf, etc...
 
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