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Leafs' Prospect/Marlies Discussion Thread!

the liiga site has good stats actually.

Roni played 14:18 per game, which made him a low-end 3rd liner on his team this year.

he was 2nd on the team in cf% at well over 60%, but also 2nd in ozs% also over 60%.

he did have 2min of PP time per game, but that was only 8th or 9th amongst his teams forwards so that's low end 2nd unit time.

he scored 5gls and 9pts on the PP so that's actually quite a bit of his production on the PP so his Even strength scoring wasn't all that great.
 
Did Niemela's team have an elite PP? Plenty of pigeon points to be had on elite PPs. Zaitsev got 36 points doing it once.
 
Preston said:
Oh those two aren't comparable. I wasn't comparing them. Just saying that plenty of middling talented defenders put up elite point totals in Europe and never amount to much in NA. And when I watch Niemela I'm not horny over his raw tools or anything. But production matters most and he produces so he probably doesn't matter. He's obviously a fantastic prospect.
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Like who?
 
Preston said:
Almost every free agent euro d signing. Feel like they miss more than the forwards.
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Yes, when they're 24-25 yrs old. Lehtonen or whoever, it's still a bad argument.

If we look at all of the big minor pro leagues (KHL, AHL, Liiga, SHL), and use league scoring coefficients to grade the 19 yr old defenders, this is how that shakes loose (adjusted into NHL points)

Since 2000

Lundqvist - .41ppg
Seider - .40ppg
Carlson - .36ppg
Niemela - .36ppg
Vatanen - .32ppg
Sandin - .32ppg
Pitkanen - .31ppg
Harley - .30ppg
Erixon - .30ppg

That's the whole list. Every 19 yr old defender in a minor pro league that averaged an adjusted .3 NHL ppg or higher as a 19 yr old. Explaining Niemela away because you've been fooled by 27 yr old Euro defenders before is just lazy.

The only real bust on that list is Erixon. Everyone else is either a current top prospect (Harley & Lundqvist are very recent 1sts) or are/were very productive NHL defenders.
 
MindzEye said:
Yes, when they're 24-25 yrs old. Lehtonen or whoever, it's still a bad argument.

If we look at all of the big minor pro leagues (KHL, AHL, Liiga, SHL), and use league scoring coefficients to grade the 19 yr old defenders, this is how that shakes loose (adjusted into NHL points)

Since 2000

Lundqvist - .41ppg
Seider - .40ppg
Carlson - .36ppg
Niemela - .36ppg
Vatanen - .32ppg
Sandin - .32ppg
Pitkanen - .31ppg
Harley - .30ppg
Erixon - .30ppg

That's the whole list. Every 19 yr old defender in a minor pro league that averaged an adjusted .3 NHL ppg or higher as a 19 yr old. Explaining Niemela away because you've been fooled by 27 yr old Euro defenders before is just lazy.

The only real bust on that list is Erixon. Everyone else is either a current top prospect (Harley & Lundqvist are very recent 1sts) or are/were very productive NHL defenders.
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Yup, that's what I meant and why i said it was different. Don't disagree there.
 
WJC production isn’t necessarily determinative of anything, but Knies putting up 3 assists in 5 games against a bunch of kids is kinda disappointing.

I guess that random dman no one heard of in Leafs prospect camp Knies owned wasn’t so great after all.
 
WJC Age 18

Niemela 7gms 2gls 8pts
Robertson 5gms 2gls 5pts
Hirvonen 7gms 2gls 6pts
Knies ----

WJC Age 19

Robertson ---
Hirvonen 5gms 3gls 7pts (in progress)
Niemela 5gms 0gls 4pts (in progress)
Knies 5gms 0gls 3pts


Of course Roni and Topi are early year babies and Nick and Knies are late year babies.

Robertson is actually only a few months younger than Roni.
 
I’m getting Josh Anderson vibes from Matthew Knies.

Big dude that Hockey People™ eye-testers love, but he seems to put an underwhelming amount of actual points on the board.

Doesn’t mean he may not be a useful player if you plug him into Hyman’s former role to the left of Matthews or Tavares, but my hopes that he’ll be any kind of scorer/play-driver in his own right are fading unless he puts up big numbers in the NCAA this year.
 
LeafGm said:
I’m getting Josh Anderson vibes from Matthew Knies.

Big dude that Hockey People™ eye-testers love, but he seems to put an underwhelming amount of actual points on the board.

Doesn’t mean he may not be a useful player if you plug him into Hyman’s former role to the left of Matthews or Tavares, but my hopes that he’ll be any kind of scorer/play-driver in his own right are fading unless he puts up big numbers in the NCAA this year.
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yeah, I'm in this camp too. concerned the hype is always going to exceed the output.

guess we'll see. have to trust Dubie et al to make the right calls about who to keep and who to use for upgrades now.
 
LeafGm said:
I’m getting Josh Anderson vibes from Matthew Knies.

Big dude that Hockey People™ eye-testers love, but he seems to put an underwhelming amount of actual points on the board.

Doesn’t mean he may not be a useful player if you plug him into Hyman’s former role to the left of Matthews or Tavares, but my hopes that he’ll be any kind of scorer/play-driver in his own right are fading unless he puts up big numbers in the NCAA this year.
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Makes me just hate the NCAA even more if he’s a bust. Stupid league.
 
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