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OT: American Politics

FlyGuy said:
Oh, goodie, another forever war
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Russia could end the war today. It's a long war because they make it so. If they retreated back to their borders tomorrow, Ukraine wouldn't follow, wouldn't fire a single shell, drone or missile across the international border. If Ukraine retreated a single mile, Russia would take that mile and keep firing.

The obvious answer here is to support Ukraine for as long as they want to be supported, until Russia breaks. It's Ukraine's decision to make regarding how long they want to defend themselves against a genocidal invasion. It's the west's decision on whether or not they want to support Ukraine from a genocidal invasion.

The Ukies have decided that their freedom is worth fighting for.
 
cmon3 said:
If the professional degree doesn’t pay enough to offset the cost of the education to get there then yes. I disagree with that premise though. And there are other ways besides loans to get a degree.
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and my problem with this approach is it seems like you want to punish (only poor) individuals for systemic problems.

like, go check out the cost of medical school and tell me how anyone can afford that without tons of loans or family wealth.
 
cmon3 said:
For example. Fly guys wife owes $50k in school loans.

Starting salary is 63k avg for entry level accounting degree. Average CPA salary is much higher.

The degree is an investment in the future to be able to make far more than middle class income. Why should “poor people” have their taxes go to pay off his wife’s loan?
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you're going to have to come to grips with the fact that you're not gonna like how every penny of your tax dollars are spent.

I think it is worth trying to address the systemic problems created by the current student loan racket at a governmental level, instead of punishing individuals who were coerced by that very same system into incurring unsustainable debt loads. also, if you have a recent graduate who is working, if you help them with their debt, all the money they were putting into their debt goes to other parts of the economy. rising tides lift all boats.
 
MindzEye said:
Russia could end the war today. It's a long war because they make it so. If they retreated back to their borders tomorrow, Ukraine wouldn't follow, wouldn't fire a single shell, drone or missile across the international border. If Ukraine retreated a single mile, Russia would take that mile and keep firing.

The obvious answer here is to support Ukraine for as long as they want to be supported, until Russia breaks. It's Ukraine's decision to make regarding how long they want to defend themselves against a genocidal invasion. It's the west's decision on whether or not they want to support Ukraine from a genocidal invasion.

The Ukies have decided that their freedom is worth fighting for.
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it will likely forever amaze me that team 'alpha male' has somehow convinced itself that the Ukrainians, who are fighting for their freedom with their lives, are pussy ass bitches and Vladdy is the real man
 
Wayward DP said:
it will likely forever amaze me that team 'alpha male' has somehow convinced itself that the Ukrainians, who are fighting for their freedom with their lives, are pussy ass bitches and Vladdy is the real man
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It all comes down to Zelensky not playing ball with Trump when he was looking for dirt on the Biden's. That's it, that's all. Ukraine's cardinal sin was not giving Trump what he wanted.

The only reason Zelensky didn't play ball was that the evidence Trump was looking for doesn't exist. Did Hunter get a board position he's not qualified like every other BOD position around the world given to people with connections but minimal ability? Yeah. That's not the corruption we were promised the Biden family was up to though.
 
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TheCountofMonteCristo said:
problem is Ukraine cannot drive them out, the annexed territories are gone. They are the CSA fighting against the USA in the US Civil War. They are massively outnumbered in people, supplies and while the will is good and the bravery high, they will lose in the end unless they get other countries to join the fight. Right now, and likely for the foreseeable future, there is no such appetite. Only person I know who wants the west to put in ground troops in Donbas is Wehave because he has a sick desire for my son to be drafted and die there.

At the end of the day, as I stated over 1.5 years ago, the settlement is, no NATO and Russia keeps the annexed territories who want to be in Russia anyway.

As Wehave has stated on many occasion, objective reality is neither good nor bad, it just is.
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Sort of, but the difference is the CSA didn't have support of France or Britain (if they had both, Lincoln would be in quite a bit of a pickle).

No Grant (Zhukov) on the Russian side either. Not even a George McClellan. While McClellan was too timid to use the forces he assembled; he nevertheless was instrumental in turning a defeated force (from the initial battles in the war) into a well disciplined army (and rebuilt their moral).
 
oscarheyman said:
Sort of, but the difference is the CSA didn't have support of France or Britain (if they had both, Lincoln would be in quite a bit of a pickle).

No Grant (Zhukov) on the Russian side either. Not even a George McClellan. While McClellan was too timid to use the forces he assembled; he nevertheless was instrumental in turning a defeated force (from the initial battles in the war) into a well disciplined army (and rebuilt their moral).
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his troops did love little Napoleon, alas George could have ended the rebellion in 1862 but didn't move on Richmond. He also didn't follow up after Antietam.

In the end though, the small power usually loses to the big power unless you are Vietnam or Afghanistan. I don't see Vlod ordering guerrilla warfare on the steppes or in the burned out shell of Artemvosk.
 
Wayward DP said:
and my problem with this approach is it seems like you want to punish (only poor) individuals for systemic problems.

like, go check out the cost of medical school and tell me how anyone can afford that without tons of loans or family wealth.
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If the job you can get doesn’t pay enough to justify the cost of the education then yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. If it costs $100,000,000 to get through med school and that is going to start you at $100,000 per at age 30 then it’s a bad investment for anyone. If you want to spend your own money to do it anyway then go for it. But we shouldn’t be paying for someone’s bad investment.

But if it typically ends you up with $200k in loans and you start at 100k and end up at 200k in 10 years then you don’t need someone to pay off your loans.

If you decide you want a degree in basket weaving with an expected income of 0 you shouldn’t be able to get a loan for that because how are you going to pay it back? Only those who want to pay their own way through should be able to get degrees that are a bad investment.

Bottom like is personal responsibility. If you really want a basket weaving degree go ahead - it’s your dream- knock yourself out but the taxpayers shouldn’t pay off your loans.
 
cmon3 said:
If the job you can get doesn’t pay enough to justify the cost of the education then yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. If it costs $100,000,000 to get through med school and that is going to start you at $100,000 per at age 30 then it’s a bad investment for anyone. If you want to spend your own money to do it anyway then go for it. But we shouldn’t be paying for someone’s bad investment.

But if it typically ends you up with $200k in loans and you start at 100k and end up at 200k in 10 years then you don’t need someone to pay off your loans.

If you decide you want a degree in basket weaving with an expected income of 0 you shouldn’t be able to get a loan for that because how are you going to pay it back? Only those who want to pay their own way through should be able to get degrees that are a bad investment.

Bottom like is personal responsibility. If you really want a basket weaving degree go ahead - it’s your dream- knock yourself out but the taxpayers shouldn’t pay off your loans.
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I understand. I have things I do not want the govt paying for either.

Are you fine with taxpayers paying for grade school?

imo university (post secondary, trade school) should be paid for by tax payers

I half joke that a university degree is basically what grade 12 was a generation ago. Very hard to find a decent job with only grade 12.

Paying off student loans is a half measure though. Have to fix the system at some point but that would likely be an even bigger hit to the average tax payer.

I do find it pretty stupid that society expects someone to pick a career at 17. Myself I got an IT diploma before switching to Poli Sci
 
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