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OT: American Politics

Re: OT: Canadian Politics

And I have absolutely no problem with this argument. If you're getting into a debate on the merits of the aircraft's specs, like I know you have focused on in the past, that's fine. I can respect that argument.

It's the people who complain about the government's search for new RCAF hardware as if it will result in health care or education being left out in the cold that I take issue with. We're putting $30 billion into new war ships over the next several decades to refurbish our water-borne fleet, and $10 billion in additional funding for coast guard vessels and civilian-commanded ships. The Air Force should see similar upgrades. The problem is that some people don't view these purchases as a one-time investment that will last for decades.

They view it as a sunk cost that will continue to take away funding from other governmental departments, and that is simply factually incorrect (beyond any of the associated standard maintenance costs which are factored into the budget). If you subscribe to the notion, as I do, that the protection of national sovereignty is a fundamental pillar of defence strategy, it's acceptable to engage in modernization programs now and then to defend our borders and assist our allies in missions elsewhere.

In fairness, the people who think what you've written above, are the same people who think we should turn off all the lights in Fort McMurray tomorrow without a viable economic alternative in place.

Idiots.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

gretzky-harper-game584cp.jpg

For **** sakes Steve, smile. You're sitting next to Wayne ****ing Gretzky at a ****ing Team Canada game.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Something else that has been lost in the recent discussions in this thread is how the Conservatives misled parliament, accused the opposition of being blasphemous and treasonous for daring to question the whole F-35 debacle, and skirting and circumventing due process wherever they could to force feed this purchase through.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Something else that has been lost in the recent discussions in this thread is how the Conservatives misled parliament, accused the opposition of being blasphemous and treasonous for daring to question the whole F-35 debacle, and skirting and circumventing due process wherever they could to force feed this purchase through.

Well...there is this, and I've claimed in the past that the contempt charges laid at the feet of the Harper government for doing just that were in fact valid. The resident Tories claim it was just political grandstanding though.

the PMO has a legal requirement of disclosure to Parliament.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Well...there is this, and I've claimed in the past that the contempt charges laid at the feet of the Harper government for doing just that were in fact valid. The resident Tories claim it was just political grandstanding though.

the PMO has a legal requirement of disclosure to Parliament.

What concerns me particularly, and this isn't just limited to this particular case, is the Tories apparent disdain for due process and transparency. If I get a chance I'm going to look through Ferguson's report, but it seems as if there was a deliberate effort to mislead and not provide an accurate picture at every step of the project, from DND to the Ministers to Parliament etc, which speaks to a problem more endemic to this iteration of the Tories.

I guess what I'm saying is aside from just the issue of the F-35s themselves, and the whole debacle it has become, I'm far more concerned with the overall disdain for transparency and democracy from Harper's government. This is just one manifestation of that where they've been caught.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Disclosing the costs of bill C-10 was another I can think of.

Yeah basically anything Kevin Page has investigated falls under that.

Then there's also some of the shenanigans they've pulled in regards to the Northern Gateway. The foreign funding thing particularly grates on me, because I worked in Washington as the Canadian government, Alberta government, and CAPP poured millions of dollars of "foreign funds" into lobbying for Keystone. And the whole Richard Colvin debacle. Plus plus plus
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

The real shame is the muppets we have as alternatives to this Harper super secret clown show.

****ing abysmal choice after abysmal choice on the Federal level...First the tax evader, then the guy who couldn't speak english (and not in the charming way Chretien couldn't), then the "Cosmopolitan", and now the guy who invented his own "holiday" in Ontario....FFS Liberals.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Because they're idiots.

With the amount of continental airspace we have, simply to protect our sovereignty, we absolutely require a functioning, well equipped RCAF to defend our airspace. Where I get a little touchy is when we start talking about spending many billions on a fighter that's main utility is in it's ability to project aerial power on battlefields abroad, which is what the F-35 is really for. It's not a fantastic interceptor style fighter by any stretch, and that should be the main concern when we're procuring imo.

What we need is the F-22. What we got is an overseas ground attack compromise.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

The real shame is the muppets we have as alternatives to this Harper super secret clown show.

****ing abysmal choice after abysmal choice on the Federal level...First the tax evader, then the guy who couldn't speak english (and not in the charming way Chretien couldn't), then the "Cosmopolitan", and now the guy who invented his own "holiday" in Ontario....FFS Liberals.

You can always vote NDP...and wipe out your job. *shrug*
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

The F-22 is arguably the best all-around military aircraft ever made. The United States isn't going to export it, even to its Canadian ally.

So why buy a second rate plane?

And are you sure they wont export it? With US military budgets getting slashed?
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

What second rate plane are you referring to?

As far as intercept capabilities, the F35 is second rate to the F22.

We had this discussion about 6 months ago. If memory serves me right, I found articles that had the F-35 as a poor cousin to the F-22 in that regard. Actually, everything on the planet is poor cousin to the F-22 capabilities.

Conservative or not, I do NOT want an airplane that can bomb Libyan strongholds. I want a plane that can scare the shit out of Russian warship in the Arctic. NOTHING speaks "you're f****d if I wanted to f*** you" like an F-22 blasting by the ships tower at Mach 2 when NOTHING showed up on their radar screen....other then their spilled vodka.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Well I agree with you in that regard but I wouldn't call a fighter with stealth capabilities second-rate. It's a fifth generation aircraft just like the F-22. If people plan on using it in areas that it had clear deficiencies in relation to the F-22 rather than in areas in which it is a superior aircraft, that's their problem, not the plane itself.

I would call inferior aircraft the Super Hornet to name one example.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Long range, very high speed interception and stealth should be the ONLY consideration on the table for Canada. Period. End of story. Nothing more. Plus a couple of tankers.

Unless of course ROC intends to bomb Quebec....:sarcasm
 
Everything is a racial label/slur........when playing the race card. Yup.....

Or it could be sanctimonious garbage to fall back on.........
 
hopeychange isn't even close to being a racial label. not even close.

Hopeychange was coined by leftist propaganda babbler and obama supporter to deride the lack of "progressive" policies.

How DARE you use it. You must have the right credentials that only elitist leftist and internet sanctimonious saints can grant you.
 
Re: OT: Canadian Politics

Seriously though, in retrospect the worst thing that the Tories did was increase spending while cutting government revenue. You cannot claim to be great fiscal managers while removing government revenue like the GST (a mind-bogglingly stupid decision in retrospect) while at the same time increasing spending for different programs. All you do is increase the yearly deficit at a period in time that you're trying to pay down the national debt.

Well said. You are referring to "fiscal discipline". Sometimes, governments need to spend. Sometimes, they need to run deficits. But over a business cycle/decade/however one defines a long-run period, it should ensure the the debt to GDP ratio is stable or, preferably, tracking down. Government actions should be assessed withing those parameters.

"Fiscal conservatism" is often conflated with free market fundamentalism, and is a silly ideological fantasy (no different than communism).
 
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