hockeylover
Well-known member
seems weird to be on the side of the raw milk/anti vax/general dummy guy *prior* to reading anything.
OT: American Politics
- Thread starter MindzEye
- Start date
Wayward DP
Well-known member
are obesity pills an effective tool in the tool box if they're only effective when you are taking them? (which is my impression currently - correct me if I'm wrong on this)
I ask seriously, as someone without a ton of knowledge in these areas.
like, it's great that these pills can help folks lose weight. but do they all put it back on once they stop taking it? if so, what are the long-term effects of using these types of medications? and is an obesity pill the best solution?
wasn't Ozempic originally a treatment for diabetes, but now being widely used for weight loss?
I guess I just have a lot of questions
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
The US didn't need to bleed that much for the public to stop supporting the war but had the US remained there, and maintained their late 60's troops levels there into the mid 1970's, they would have been bled white. The US taxpayers certainly were. All the inequality we see today had its roots in the costs of Vietnam. LBJ couldn't realize his "Great Society" when the war was sucking the treasury dry. Every good social program that could have been a help to people today was gutted to pay for the military cost of that war.
The Vietnam War was the tipping point at which future generations, beginning with Gen X, were no longer going to do as well or better as the previous generation did. Gen Xers were the first to experience this, but every generation after them has done even worse and that trend is not reversing itself. We continue to get poorer and dumber and now, with the reelection of Trump, we can say with confidence that the United States is now, officially, a failed state. Things will only get worse from here.
Now let's talk about Russia, which, when the invasion began in 2022, was already a black hole, 2nd world country. It doesn't have nearly as far to go in order to collapse under its own weight. The Ukrainians will make sure that this war never ends. As long as one Russian soldier stands inside of their borders, the Ukrainians will keep fighting. They will force Russia to spend money it doesn't have just to keep them somewhat pacified. But Russian soldiers will continue being killed as long as they stay there and their morale, which is already non-existent, will only deteriorate further.
This is how revolutions happen and Russians have done this before.
The Vietnam War was the tipping point at which future generations, beginning with Gen X, were no longer going to do as well or better as the previous generation did. Gen Xers were the first to experience this, but every generation after them has done even worse and that trend is not reversing itself. We continue to get poorer and dumber and now, with the reelection of Trump, we can say with confidence that the United States is now, officially, a failed state. Things will only get worse from here.
Now let's talk about Russia, which, when the invasion began in 2022, was already a black hole, 2nd world country. It doesn't have nearly as far to go in order to collapse under its own weight. The Ukrainians will make sure that this war never ends. As long as one Russian soldier stands inside of their borders, the Ukrainians will keep fighting. They will force Russia to spend money it doesn't have just to keep them somewhat pacified. But Russian soldiers will continue being killed as long as they stay there and their morale, which is already non-existent, will only deteriorate further.
This is how revolutions happen and Russians have done this before.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
I don't understand why a pill is required instead of attempting to resolve through lifestyle choices. And if you need to stay on the pill to enjoy the benefits, is it something that is safe for long-term use?
I'm open to being convinced but yeah, my default position with respect to solving obesity through a simple pill is skepticism.
FlyGuy is not entirely wrong about the harmful shit in a lot of what is sold as 'food' both here and in the US. I don't agree that RFK fixes anything though, that guy is an anti-science quack.
our current food systems are... concerning, to say the least. the drop off in family farms over the last decade is shocking and distressing.
hockeylover
Well-known member
if someone is dangerously obese to the point they may have life threatening complications though, why is "one day if they stop taking this medication, they might gain weight again" even a primary consideration though?
hockeylover
Well-known member
because some of these patients are dangerously overweight and might never lose the weight on their own and we want to keep them alive.
FlyGuy
Well-known member
People blindly do anything a doctor suggest, usually just looking for a pill to fix all their problems. A pharma company giving a drug that malnourishes the body and decreases heart and skeletal muscle and recommending that it be taken long-term will result in doctors parroting that. Look at the opioid crisis. Doctors just parrot the bullshit they're told and people eat it up because the doctor is the supposed expert.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
this is reasonable, no objection here.
but my understanding is that drugs like Ozempic at least are being commonly used by folks who are not dangerously obese, just overweight. I don't know if this is still happening but I recall it was leading to shortages in Ozempic, where diabetics were unable to access the medication.
if the primary use is more as you described, seems reasonable
leafman101
Well-known member
Its not. But Ozempic is being taken by way more than just morbidly obese people. Like celebrities are using it to look better.
I am very pro medicine, but there is not really a question that any issue that can be cured by lifestyle changes is better than medication. There are always side effects.
Of course there are people who really need it too.
I am very pro medicine, but there is not really a question that any issue that can be cured by lifestyle changes is better than medication. There are always side effects.
Of course there are people who really need it too.
hockeylover
Well-known member
you have to be at a certain bmi for most insurance companies to cover this, at least from people i know who've taken it.
FlyGuy
Well-known member
It works by turning off the signal in your gut that tells you you're hungry.
So it literally just malnourishes you to make you lose weight. Because that's healthy. /s
Wayward DP
Well-known member
I mean, BMI is problematic for its own reasons, but good to see some gatekeeping in effect.
hockeylover
Well-known member
it seems like a fairly easy solution for it to be subsidized for people who actually really need it, no?
i'm not talking about celebrities here.
i'm not talking about celebrities here.
FlyGuy
Well-known member
Agree, lets spend government money on figuring out why Europe bans so many substances that go into food that we don't. Let's purify our food and water sources. Let's change lifestyle eating habits. Let's incentive cooking and eating at home and find ways to make groceries less expensive.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
I think I agree with all of this in theory. I expect we would disagree about it in practice though. We may find out soon enough
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou
I will get banned again soon, worry not.
Shall we pull the stats on which party gets the vast majority of big pharma campaign donations as well as who in the FDA gets to write the federal regulations of these meds and where did these people work before joining the FDA?
Just watch, the person who Trump appoints to head the FDA will inevitably be someone who owns stock in a pharmaceutical conglomerate who stands to get richer if certain health and safety regulations on that conglomerate's latest wonder drug are removed.
FlyGuy
Well-known member
Yeah, BMI is horse shit. If you have any average to above-average amount of muscle mass then you'll forever be classified overweight.
FlyGuy
Well-known member
Tax dollars paying for fatties who don't put in the work to educate themselves or dedication to move to lose weight is absolutely abhorrent to me.
Wayward DP
Well-known member
it's not that easy. obesity is a medical condition, not a lack of effort condition.
our bodies are all different. a good example of this was when I was doing an internship at a lobby firm in DC. I lived with my buddy in an apartment walking distance from our offices. we cooked together so we were normally eating the same thing. we usually went to the gym together after work too, and walked to/from work, together if our schedules lined up.
but we could both go out for a night on the town, consume the exact same amount/things, and he'd gain three pounds and I would lose five. same activity, same diet, different bodies.
lifestyle choices are not a fix all.