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OT: American Politics

Ozempic is a great. Obviously you'd want them to resolve their obesity through lifestyle choices, but at the end of the day, obesity is a mental illness for many. It's easier said than done.

This pill, if used in the correct way by the correct people, can increase life expectancy in that cohort like nothing we've ever seen before.
 
i can't really fathom this kind of attitude really.

my tax dollars go to all sorts of things that don't affect me directly but i can see the bigger picture.

you can subsidize a pill now or tie up the healthcare system with all sorts of problems down the road. and yes, *of course* you should also subsidize other ways of encouraging healthy lifestyles.
 
Wayward DP said:
are obesity pills an effective tool in the tool box if they're only effective when you are taking them? (which is my impression currently - correct me if I'm wrong on this)

I ask seriously, as someone without a ton of knowledge in these areas.

like, it's great that these pills can help folks lose weight. but do they all put it back on once they stop taking it? if so, what are the long-term effects of using these types of medications? and is an obesity pill the best solution?

wasn't Ozempic originally a treatment for diabetes, but now being widely used for weight loss?

I guess I just have a lot of questions
Click to expand...
Ozempic helps the body secrete less glucagon (which makes blood sugar go up), and make more insulin. The main effect is that it significantly reduces appetite, and also causes the body to digest food slower.

The end result is that people eat a lot less while taking these drugs, thus leading to weight loss. And the reduction in blood sugar helps with diabetes.

Yes absolutely, lifestyle changes would be a much better way to combat obesity than taking a drug. How's that been working out? Diabesity is an epidemic. It's just really, really fucking hard for people to lose weight naturally in this society, where food is available 24 hours a day and junk food is delicious and cheap.

This drug has been life-changing for a lot of people, and has made the impossible, possible.

It takes forever to lose large amounts of weight, so it's extremely difficult for obese people. Lifestyle changes aren't effective enough. These drugs are absurdly expensive, so the government helping bring the costs down is a good thing. But we do need to monitor the long-term health benefits, and create programs to help wean people off them once the weight has been lost.

Problem 1 is that when you lose a large amount of weight, a certain percentage is going to be muscle, which is one point Fly made which is correct. This can be mitigated with exercise and weight lifting. Problem 2 is that people do tend to start gaining weight back once they come off the drugs, which is not because medical professionals are secretly satan-worshippers, but for reasons which should be fucking obvious. Obese people who have struggled for years to lose weight really do need to understand that this drug is like a miracle helping them finally do it, but they absolutely 100% need to change their lifestyle to keep the weight off.

Problem 3 is that non-obese people who shouldn't be on these drugs are taking them for cosmetic reasons.

Problem 4 is the side effects and long-term health questions. From what I know, the short-term side effects are minimal, really, compared to the benefits. The long-term effect of these drugs is still largely unknown. They have been studied for over a decade. There is some evidence it can lead to certain types of cancer.

Some more info in a relatively short article here:

hub.jhu.edu

The pros, cons, and unknowns of popular weight-loss drugs

Are in-demand drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy safe and effective? A Johns Hopkins expert explains
hub.jhu.edu hub.jhu.edu
 
Preston said:
Ozempic is a great. Obviously you'd want them to resolve their obesity through lifestyle choices, but at the end of the day, obesity is a mental illness for many. It's easier said than done.

This pill, if used in the correct way by the correct people, can increase life expectancy in that cohort like nothing we've ever seen before.
Click to expand...

Yeah, like sure it would be great to get all the processing out of food, and get people on a healthier lifestyle. But if Ozempic actually works for a large group of people, it could be absolutely revolutionary to combatting one of the biggest diseases out there. Now, I'm not sure it's 100% ready to be rolled out to the masses yet, but it's getting pretty damned close.

There are side effects, yes. And there's people abusing it. And it would be nice if the effects persisted (as mentioned, once someone goes off of it, they pretty much all immediately gain the weight back). No, it shouldn't come default in my medical plan, since I'm a lazy bastard, I should pay for it myself if I wanted it. But there are a number of people who are in much worse shape than me for whom it could be a game changer for them, and as long as it's safe, I don't mind the government covering them.
 
Preston said:
Ozempic is a great. Obviously you'd want them to resolve their obesity through lifestyle choices, but at the end of the day, obesity is a mental illness for many. It's easier said than done.

This pill, if used in the correct way by the correct people, can increase life expectancy in that cohort like nothing we've ever seen before.
Click to expand...
What can one take to help them JO less, Dr Presto?
 
hockeylover said:
the reason to subsidize it is it likely would save taxpayers money in the long run, imo.

also just better to have more people healthy and able to work.
Click to expand...
Yup, everything has pros and cons. It's naive to think otherwise, there is no miracle drug.

But as HL says, the benefit to society is that the government spending a little money subsidizing the cost of ozempic will save trillions of dollars in future health care costs. And that also leads to less suffering, more productivity, etc. etc. etc.
 
Wayward DP said:
it's not that easy. obesity is a medical condition, not a lack of effort condition.

our bodies are all different. a good example of this was when I was doing an internship at a lobby firm in DC. I lived with my buddy in an apartment walking distance from our offices. we cooked together so we were normally eating the same thing. we usually went to the gym together after work too, and walked to/from work, together if our schedules lined up.

but we could both go out for a night on the town, consume the exact same amount/things, and he'd gain three pounds and I would lose five. same activity, same diet, different bodies.

lifestyle choices are not a fix all.
Click to expand...
Well, yes, not everybody is the same and equal. Some people have to work harder than others. That's true in all aspects of life. In your example, he should not be consuming the same as you when going for a night on the town and probably change his gym and eating routine from yours. Those are lifestyle choices.
 
hockeylover said:
i can't really fathom this kind of attitude really.

my tax dollars go to all sorts of things that don't affect me directly but i can see the bigger picture.

you can subsidize a pill now or tie up the healthcare system with all sorts of problems down the road. and yes, *of course* you should also subsidize other ways of encouraging healthy lifestyles.
Click to expand...
Sweet, then subsidize my liver and groceries then. I'm eating healthy and saving healthcare costs. So, pay me money, too.
 
axlsalinger said:
Ozempic helps the body secrete less glucagon (which makes blood sugar go up), and make more insulin. The main effect is that it significantly reduces appetite, and also causes the body to digest food slower.

The end result is that people eat a lot less while taking these drugs, thus leading to weight loss. And the reduction in blood sugar helps with diabetes.

Yes absolutely, lifestyle changes would be a much better way to combat obesity than taking a drug. How's that been working out? Diabesity is an epidemic. It's just really, really fucking hard for people to lose weight naturally in this society, where food is available 24 hours a day and junk food is delicious and cheap.

This drug has been life-changing for a lot of people, and has made the impossible, possible.

It takes forever to lose large amounts of weight, so it's extremely difficult for obese people. Lifestyle changes aren't effective enough. These drugs are absurdly expensive, so the government helping bring the costs down is a good thing. But we do need to monitor the long-term health benefits, and create programs to help wean people off them once the weight has been lost.

Problem 1 is that when you lose a large amount of weight, a certain percentage is going to be muscle, which is one point Fly made which is correct. This can be mitigated with exercise and weight lifting. Problem 2 is that people do tend to start gaining weight back once they come off the drugs, which is not because medical professionals are secretly satan-worshippers, but for reasons which should be fucking obvious. Obese people who have struggled for years to lose weight really do need to understand that this drug is like a miracle helping them finally do it, but they absolutely 100% need to change their lifestyle to keep the weight off.

Problem 3 is that non-obese people who shouldn't be on these drugs are taking them for cosmetic reasons.

Problem 4 is the side effects and long-term health questions. From what I know, the short-term side effects are minimal, really, compared to the benefits. The long-term effect of these drugs is still largely unknown. They have been studied for over a decade. There is some evidence it can lead to certain types of cancer.

Some more info in a relatively short article here:

hub.jhu.edu

The pros, cons, and unknowns of popular weight-loss drugs

Are in-demand drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy safe and effective? A Johns Hopkins expert explains
hub.jhu.edu hub.jhu.edu
Click to expand...
Almost like, gasp, people should focus on eating a way that doesn't reduce their insulin sensitivity and create point blank cellular disfunction.
 
FlyGuy said:
Sweet, then subsidize my liver and groceries then. I'm eating healthy and saving healthcare costs. So, pay me money, too.
Click to expand...
j2ffVQo.gif
 
Preston said:
Ozempic is a great. Obviously you'd want them to resolve their obesity through lifestyle choices, but at the end of the day, obesity is a mental illness for many. It's easier said than done.

This pill, if used in the correct way by the correct people, can increase life expectancy in that cohort like nothing we've ever seen before.
Click to expand...

Ozempic is a drug used to treat diabetes. It causes weight loss as a side effect. The primary problem with Ozempic is that it is being prescribed to people who want quick and easy weight loss and who may not even have diabetes.

All these Hollywood types who got their hands on it so they could shed the extra pounds they put on during lockdown mostly look like ghouls. But in their world, you can never be too rich or too thin.
 
FlyGuy said:
Because

Home data sales sharply revised downward
Crime data sharply revised upward
Jobs data sharply revised downward

You really haven’t noticed this?

I’m sure in missing something else that was being wrongly reported to support the current administration and economy narratives.

“Look at jobs and growth data! We need a cut to keep stocks up going into the reelection!”

“Oh, it’s actually not all roses? Wait, disinflation has stalled? Wait, the Fed is now stuck where they can’t cut, but actual inflation economic cracks are showing?”

It was all so political. The farce that was an “independent Fed”
Click to expand...

"Sharply"

Just using that home sales data as our reference point, there are 4 full months of data there showing 2.91 million homes that were projected to be sold and a downward revision to 2.81 million over those 4 months or a downward revision about 3%. That's pretty good for a fucking projection.

You're falling for the shitty graph trick where the graph looks bad but the numbers on it aren't. That graph starts at 500K, not 0, so it makes a fairly minor separation of the numbers from projection to reality look far more pronounced than it actually is (for clarity, that's not the official graph)

Here's the official press release

New Residential Sales Press Release

www.census.gov www.census.gov

Are you starting to realize that you fall for this a lot?
 
axlsalinger said:
Ozempic helps the body secrete less glucagon (which makes blood sugar go up), and make more insulin. The main effect is that it significantly reduces appetite, and also causes the body to digest food slower.

The end result is that people eat a lot less while taking these drugs, thus leading to weight loss. And the reduction in blood sugar helps with diabetes.

Yes absolutely, lifestyle changes would be a much better way to combat obesity than taking a drug. How's that been working out? Diabesity is an epidemic. It's just really, really fucking hard for people to lose weight naturally in this society, where food is available 24 hours a day and junk food is delicious and cheap.

This drug has been life-changing for a lot of people, and has made the impossible, possible.

It takes forever to lose large amounts of weight, so it's extremely difficult for obese people. Lifestyle changes aren't effective enough. These drugs are absurdly expensive, so the government helping bring the costs down is a good thing. But we do need to monitor the long-term health benefits, and create programs to help wean people off them once the weight has been lost.

Problem 1 is that when you lose a large amount of weight, a certain percentage is going to be muscle, which is one point Fly made which is correct. This can be mitigated with exercise and weight lifting. Problem 2 is that people do tend to start gaining weight back once they come off the drugs, which is not because medical professionals are secretly satan-worshippers, but for reasons which should be fucking obvious. Obese people who have struggled for years to lose weight really do need to understand that this drug is like a miracle helping them finally do it, but they absolutely 100% need to change their lifestyle to keep the weight off.

Problem 3 is that non-obese people who shouldn't be on these drugs are taking them for cosmetic reasons.

Problem 4 is the side effects and long-term health questions. From what I know, the short-term side effects are minimal, really, compared to the benefits. The long-term effect of these drugs is still largely unknown. They have been studied for over a decade. There is some evidence it can lead to certain types of cancer.

Some more info in a relatively short article here:

hub.jhu.edu

The pros, cons, and unknowns of popular weight-loss drugs

Are in-demand drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy safe and effective? A Johns Hopkins expert explains
hub.jhu.edu hub.jhu.edu
Click to expand...
thanks for all this info
 
axlsalinger said:
Ozempic helps the body secrete less glucagon (which makes blood sugar go up), and make more insulin. The main effect is that it significantly reduces appetite, and also causes the body to digest food slower.

The end result is that people eat a lot less while taking these drugs, thus leading to weight loss. And the reduction in blood sugar helps with diabetes.

Yes absolutely, lifestyle changes would be a much better way to combat obesity than taking a drug. How's that been working out? Diabesity is an epidemic. It's just really, really fucking hard for people to lose weight naturally in this society, where food is available 24 hours a day and junk food is delicious and cheap.

This drug has been life-changing for a lot of people, and has made the impossible, possible.

It takes forever to lose large amounts of weight, so it's extremely difficult for obese people. Lifestyle changes aren't effective enough. These drugs are absurdly expensive, so the government helping bring the costs down is a good thing. But we do need to monitor the long-term health benefits, and create programs to help wean people off them once the weight has been lost.

Problem 1 is that when you lose a large amount of weight, a certain percentage is going to be muscle, which is one point Fly made which is correct. This can be mitigated with exercise and weight lifting. Problem 2 is that people do tend to start gaining weight back once they come off the drugs, which is not because medical professionals are secretly satan-worshippers, but for reasons which should be fucking obvious. Obese people who have struggled for years to lose weight really do need to understand that this drug is like a miracle helping them finally do it, but they absolutely 100% need to change their lifestyle to keep the weight off.

Problem 3 is that non-obese people who shouldn't be on these drugs are taking them for cosmetic reasons.

Problem 4 is the side effects and long-term health questions. From what I know, the short-term side effects are minimal, really, compared to the benefits. The long-term effect of these drugs is still largely unknown. They have been studied for over a decade. There is some evidence it can lead to certain types of cancer.

Some more info in a relatively short article here:

hub.jhu.edu

The pros, cons, and unknowns of popular weight-loss drugs

Are in-demand drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy safe and effective? A Johns Hopkins expert explains
hub.jhu.edu hub.jhu.edu
Click to expand...
"It's really hard, look at all the temptation! Here's a pill courtesy of tax-payers, keep on as you were and just take this miracle drug!"

"Look at all the garbage food that's poisoning people and causing diabetes! Don't worry, we'll solve it with a pill. Root cause be damned!"

"It takes too long and is too much work, just take this pill instead!"

Jesus the worldview that influenced what you wrote is so scary.
 
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