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OT: American Politics

FlyGuy said:
I'm paying extra to be a productive member of the economy and I never go to the doctor so I save healthcare costs.

Now, pay me money.
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I hope next time you or anyone in your family needs prescription drugs that are covered by your health care package that you will insist on paying full price instead because that's communism. Also, if FlyGuy's employer and/or health care provider are "subsidizing" the cost of drugs that FlyGuy needs, they should also pay me money too. Does that summarize your argument?
 
FlyGuy said:

View: https://x.com/_stephaniemyers/status/1861412981361516546?s=46&t=jO26Xs3gATFmVvs8KlHlPg

Fucking horse shit. Not only should the government not be subsidizing these treatments, they should be advertising how dangerous and harmful they are.
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Eh, a couple of things here.

- Obesity has a cost to the system that far exceeds the cost of subsidizing Ozempic. This is the exact same as subsidizing/eliminating student debt. Sometimes you have to look at the cost inherent in not doing something. There would be rage in the fucking streets if the federal government tried to take action to force Americans to eat healthier and be more active. This is a way better option than spending billions on treating the side effects of obesity.

- Regarding how harmful they are, the current data suggests that they're safe under a doctor's ongoing supervision but do come with an uncomfortable sounding set of potential side effects to manage (but this is of course publicly available data). It's highly unlikely that there are long term use side effects worse than the long term side effects of obesity, which is just as bad as being a pack a day smoker or a heavy drinker for causing early mortality and poorer long term health outcomes.


Just like looking at student loan debt through the lens of personal choice/morality is dumb, it's dumb to do the same with this issue. Unless you're interested in giving the federal government the power to force people to make the "right" decisions, sometimes harm reduction strategies like these are far better than doing nothing.
 
axlsalinger said:
Ozempic helps the body secrete less glucagon (which makes blood sugar go up), and make more insulin. The main effect is that it significantly reduces appetite, and also causes the body to digest food slower.

The end result is that people eat a lot less while taking these drugs, thus leading to weight loss. And the reduction in blood sugar helps with diabetes.

Yes absolutely, lifestyle changes would be a much better way to combat obesity than taking a drug. How's that been working out? Diabesity is an epidemic. It's just really, really fucking hard for people to lose weight naturally in this society, where food is available 24 hours a day and junk food is delicious and cheap.

This drug has been life-changing for a lot of people, and has made the impossible, possible.

It takes forever to lose large amounts of weight, so it's extremely difficult for obese people. Lifestyle changes aren't effective enough. These drugs are absurdly expensive, so the government helping bring the costs down is a good thing. But we do need to monitor the long-term health benefits, and create programs to help wean people off them once the weight has been lost.

Problem 1 is that when you lose a large amount of weight, a certain percentage is going to be muscle, which is one point Fly made which is correct. This can be mitigated with exercise and weight lifting. Problem 2 is that people do tend to start gaining weight back once they come off the drugs, which is not because medical professionals are secretly satan-worshippers, but for reasons which should be fucking obvious. Obese people who have struggled for years to lose weight really do need to understand that this drug is like a miracle helping them finally do it, but they absolutely 100% need to change their lifestyle to keep the weight off.

Problem 3 is that non-obese people who shouldn't be on these drugs are taking them for cosmetic reasons.

Problem 4 is the side effects and long-term health questions. From what I know, the short-term side effects are minimal, really, compared to the benefits. The long-term effect of these drugs is still largely unknown. They have been studied for over a decade. There is some evidence it can lead to certain types of cancer.

Some more info in a relatively short article here:

hub.jhu.edu

The pros, cons, and unknowns of popular weight-loss drugs

Are in-demand drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy safe and effective? A Johns Hopkins expert explains
hub.jhu.edu hub.jhu.edu
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One thing I'll add is that the links to cancer are from animal studies, which historically have a poor correlation with humans. Zero evidence of the link in humans, which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But animal studies can be abused by fear mongerers. Lots of stuff is toxic to animals that we consume every day, including things that are proven to be healthy for us.

But ya, lovely post. Obesity is arguably the biggest killer in society today. Equipping these people with a life saving tool is the moral thing to do. And will save lots and lots of $$$.
 
FlyGuy said:
"It's really hard, look at all the temptation! Here's a pill courtesy of tax-payers, keep on as you were and just take this miracle drug!"

"Look at all the garbage food that's poisoning people and causing diabetes! Don't worry, we'll solve it with a pill. Root cause be damned!"

"It takes too long and is too much work, just take this pill instead!"

Jesus the worldview that influenced what you wrote is so scary.
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Super weird that you don't see student loans this way at all.
 
FlyGuy said:
"It's really hard, look at all the temptation! Here's a pill courtesy of tax-payers, keep on as you were and just take this miracle drug!"

"Look at all the garbage food that's poisoning people and causing diabetes! Don't worry, we'll solve it with a pill. Root cause be damned!"

"It takes too long and is too much work, just take this pill instead!"

Jesus the worldview that influenced what you wrote is so scary.
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Your thought process and logic are so flawed, it really does make me wonder if this is a parody account after all.

Then I remember that so many right-wingers have no empathy for other people, it's just pure selfish self-absorption. Only once someone you know personally is struggling with obesity and finds that Ozempic helps them finally get healthy after years of struggle will you be able to realize that it might be beneficial for some people.
 
hockeylover said:
it's amazing how clueless the people that say "i don't want my tax dollars to pay for x" are that parts of their own lifestyle are also being funded by tax dollars from people that don't benefit at all.
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Wifey and I have no children and aren't having them. Never have I complained about my taxes paying for the education of other people's children. If we finally implement socialized daycare, you won't hear a word from me about that either. The societal level benefits of programs like those are obvious and I'm happy to pay for them as long as they're managed as relatively well as governments are capable of.
 
hockeylover said:
it's amazing how clueless the people that say "i don't want my tax dollars to pay for x" are that parts of their own lifestyle are also being funded by tax dollars from people that don't benefit at all.
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Modern conservatism is built on people who have no idea how spoiled they are needing to pretend they're fierce independent cowboys who pulled themselves up by their boostraps woth no help from anyone.
 
axlsalinger said:
Your thought process and logic are so flawed, it really does make me wonder if this is a parody account after all.

Then I remember that so many right-wingers have no empathy for other people, it's just pure selfish self-absorption. Only once someone you know personally is struggling with obesity and finds that Ozempic helps them finally get healthy after years of struggle will you be able to realize that it might be beneficial for some people.
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Know super fat people who lost tons of weight without ozempic. Know super fat people who never became committed to losing weight and never lost it
 
axlsalinger said:
Your thought process and logic are so flawed, it really does make me wonder if this is a parody account after all.

Then I remember that so many right-wingers have no empathy for other people, it's just pure selfish self-absorption. Only once someone you know personally is struggling with obesity and finds that Ozempic helps them finally get healthy after years of struggle will you be able to realize that it might be beneficial for some people.
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yeah i know quite a few.

a few people have told me it's helped them cut down on drinking alcohol too.
 
FlyGuy said:
can we subsidize the peloton I bought my wife too?

Helps her stay healthy and good for mental health too
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Good question. I can't speak for where you're from, but I'm pretty sure we get to write off our gym passes here. The government should be making it easier to make good decisions, harder to make bad ones. But sometimes the government just has to pay to clean up messes that get way bigger in the future if left alone.
 
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