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OT: American Politics

Preston said:
One thing I'll add is that the links to cancer are from animal studies, which historically have a poor correlation with humans. Zero evidence of the link in humans, which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But animal studies can be abused by fear mongerers. Lots of stuff is toxic to animals that we consume every day, including things that are proven to be healthy for us.

But ya, lovely post. Obesity is arguably the biggest killer in society today. Equipping these people with a life saving tool is the moral thing to do. And will save lots and lots of $$$.
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Killing my qsr and mcd’s stocks tho
 
MindzEye said:
Good question. I can't speak for where you're from, but I'm pretty sure we get to write off our gym passes here. The government should be making it easier to make good decisions, harder to make bad ones. But sometimes the government just has to pay to clean up messes that get way bigger in the future if left alone.
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No
 
FlyGuy said:
Jesus the worldview that influenced what you wrote is so scary.
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Read the paragraph below, and tell me what response makes more sense.

(1) Diabetes and obesity are an epidemic. Nothing is working and the problem just keeps getting worse. Let's try something different.
(2) Losers eat too much derpa derpa derpa just eat less derpas, duh. It's not even 50% of the population yet, who cares?

hub.jhu.edu

The pros, cons, and unknowns of popular weight-loss drugs

Are in-demand drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy safe and effective? A Johns Hopkins expert explains
hub.jhu.edu hub.jhu.edu

"Nearly 42% of American adults were obese from 2017 to 2020, up from roughly 30% in 2000, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. With that rise in obesity comes an increased risk for heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes, and some cancers."
 
Preston said:
One thing I'll add is that the links to cancer are from animal studies, which historically have a poor correlation with humans. Zero evidence of the link in humans, which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But animal studies can be abused by fear mongerers. Lots of stuff is toxic to animals that we consume every day, including things that are proven to be healthy for us.

But ya, lovely post. Obesity is arguably the biggest killer in society today. Equipping these people with a life saving tool is the moral thing to do. And will save lots and lots of $$$.
Click to expand...
the other thing is that a big risk factor for a lot of cancers is... obesity.
 
axlsalinger said:
Read the paragraph below, and tell me what response makes more sense.

(1) Diabetes and obesity are an epidemic. Nothing is working and the problem just keeps getting worse. Let's try something different.
(2) Losers eat too much derpa derpa derpa just eat less derpas, duh. It's not even 50% of the population yet, who cares?

hub.jhu.edu

The pros, cons, and unknowns of popular weight-loss drugs

Are in-demand drugs like Ozempic and Wegovy safe and effective? A Johns Hopkins expert explains
hub.jhu.edu hub.jhu.edu

"Nearly 42% of American adults were obese from 2017 to 2020, up from roughly 30% in 2000, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. With that rise in obesity comes an increased risk for heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes, and some cancers."
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Problem must be food dyes and vaccines.
 
zeke said:
Modern conservatism is built on people who have no idea how spoiled they are needing to pretend they're fierce independent cowboys who pulled themselves up by their boostraps woth no help from anyone.
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yeah noticed that, he already accused me of wanting to "live off the teat of the government".
 
FlyGuy said:
Know super fat people who lost tons of weight without ozempic. Know super fat people who never became committed to losing weight and never lost it
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There's a lot of hormonal hard coding that happens to try to keep the human body at it's existing body weight. CICO is a good guidepost, but where we spend calories is more complicated than just hitting the gym a few times, eating at a manageable calories deficit and then doing the math. Regardless of your body weight, the brain starts immediately trying to conserve energy when you enter a deficit and starts trying to sabotage your efforts to lose weight. Millions of years of evolution have gone into systems to keep us alive during famine periods and you're fighting against those to lose weight. Not impossible of course, but difficult. This fixation on "commitment" is as useless a point of discussion on this topic as it was with the other guy bad mouthing your wife for her student debt. It's a thought device to make us feel superior to people struggling with problems we don't have, nothing more.
 
The thing about the American health care system is that they could get way more for way less money if they just cut out the middle men (insurers) but they are just too
stupid to agree to that.

Also before Obama Care the only legislation regulating health insurance was a 50 year old law that effectively said insurers can do whatever they want.

Ozemic coverage is not your DOGE health care problem.
 
Wayward DP said:
I may actually be with FlyGuy on the weight loss drugs, but I withhold any final judgment until I can see some peer reviewed research about their efficacy and side effects
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Google scholar is your friend my brother:


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The one bit of caution I have on this is how many people regain weight after going off of the drug but I think that's where working with your doctor to come off more gradually might be the way forward. Also, more research is needed on that phase of treatment to find out what the best way to end the treatment while avoiding weight gain is.
 
Plenty of drugs out there where you can legitimately argue the risk to reward and whether they are worthwhile. Ozempic is clear as day though. Anything with that level of success vs obesity needs to have gigantic, crippling health risks in order for it to not be worth it. I'm not sure why this is even a discussion tbh. The evidence is striking.
 
hockeylover said:
the other thing is that a big risk factor for a lot of cancers is... obesity.
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Yeah, this feels like the covid vaccine argument all over again. But the covid vaccine (well, one of them anway....) can cause a heart condition in a tiny % of young people who take it (but covid infections cause the same heart condition at a much, much larger rate). Everyone panic.
 
MindzEye said:
There's a lot of hormonal hard coding that happens to try to keep the human body at it's existing body weight. CICO is a good guidepost, but where we spend calories is more complicated than just hitting the gym a few times, eating at a manageable calories deficit and then doing the math. Regardless of your body weight, the brain starts immediately trying to conserve energy when you enter a deficit and starts trying to sabotage your efforts to lose weight. Millions of years of evolution have gone into systems to keep us alive during famine periods and you're fighting against those to lose weight. Not impossible of course, but difficult. This fixation on "commitment" is as useless a point of discussion on this topic as it was with the other guy bad mouthing your wife for her student debt. It's a thought device to make us feel superior to people struggling with problems we don't have, nothing more.
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I assume this should be common knowledge, but it's worth highlighting for anyone who's never really thought about it in these terms. But yes, we have needed to conserve body fat to get us through famines and hard times for all of human history, ie. millions of years.

Compared to the amount of time we've had access to fridges, cupboards full of non-perishables and and stores open full of cheap food 24 hours a day is what, 50 to 100 years max?
 
zeke said:
Providing affordable fitness facilities is and would be smart government spending.
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There are parks, bike lanes (for now), and community centres everywhere in urban areas. Other regions might be trickier.

Anyway, I wonder how much diet and lifestyle issues are linked to insecure employment, shift work, sleep habits and work life balance issues. It’s not necessarily easy to make a nice daal with spinach and brown rice and then hit the gym when one is exhausted, taxiing kiddos and trying to stay afloat financially. Tempting to order out or go for Pizza Pops in the microwave.
 
Preston said:
Plenty of drugs out there where you can legitimately argue the risk to reward and whether they are worthwhile. Ozempic is clear as day though. Anything with that level of success vs obesity needs to have gigantic, crippling health risks in order for it to not be worth it. I'm not sure why this is even a discussion tbh. The evidence is striking.
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And I think this class of drugs is just getting started. A lot of benefits and applications yet to come, IMO.

FlyGuy’s ancestors were probably against antibiotics when they came out,
 
FlyGuy said:
Sweet, then subsidize my liver and groceries then. I'm eating healthy and saving healthcare costs. So, pay me money, too.
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Sorry can't, your wife is getting your share as part of the student loan debt relief.

Listen, either pay a few bucks now to subsidize ozempic, or multiples of that later to pay for medicare/medicaid costs to treat obesity. How are you struggling with this after the student loan discussion from yesterday that you liked literally everything we said about it? It's the exact same logic. Pay less today for something beneficial to broader society so that you pay less later (in the case of higher education, you're paying less in policing, jails, treating drug abuse and alcoholism, etc....all of the things that higher education rates reduce significantly). You live in a society where inputs determine outputs and most of it is fairly straight forward with decades of data to lean on.
 
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